Why heckling Page is Fair Game

On Dec 29, 4:29 pm, Bill C wrote:
On Dec 29, 6:10 pm, Amit Ghosh wrote:

dumbass,

i am sick of these "emotional" tough guys like phil moore and kunich
who want to beat up people who insult them on the internet.

these are the same types of guys that get into shoving matches at
bars, stalk ex-girlfriends and eventually put a barrel of a shotgun in
their mouth.

I'm also sick of loud mothed assholes screaming out garbage,
disrupting others people's right to speak, ruining others people's
events to stroke their sad little egos. Your right to be an asshole
ends at my right to conduct my life and business. I'd love to come up
there where I'm guessing you teach some classes and scream throught
them about how you plagiarized a bunch of your papers, insinuate you
molest little boys, and all kinds of other garbage with NO
repercussions for my actions at all.

That's sort of a weird screwed up analogy. I just don't
really understand why that would come to your mind.
Nobody says McAninch heckled Page by accusing him
of heinous crimes and so on.

Anyway, if you came and screamed that stuff outside
my office, it would probably take a while before somebody
got the cops to come and kick you out of the building,
but nothing would happen, you wouldn't get a ticket,
and it would probably take several incidents before
they even managed to ban you from campus.

If you came and screamed that stuff outside a class
I was teaching, I would be more annoyed, not for
myself but because you'd be hurting the students
by disrupting the class. This is more analogous to
disrupting an interview as opposed to heckling at
the race. However, the post-race environment is
hardly as controlled as a classroom - more tolerance
of moderate public drunkenness, for example.

A race, like any other sanctioned sporting event is controlled by the
organizing body, it's not a public area. It's a private event where
the public is allowed access. With that come certain standards of
behavior, especially where they could damage the product, as this
asshole did.
Bill C

The public has a right to free expression that
trumps "damaging the product" as long as it doesn't
create a nuisance or disturb the peace. For example,
if I went to an Redskins game and held up a sign that
said the NFL sucks or Dan Snyder sucks or something
like that, the stadium security might hassle me if they
noticed it. On the other hand, you can go to the
Tour or a local crit and hold up a sign that says LANCE
(or even Christophe Moreau) is a doper, or even a
sign that says cyclists should get off the roads, and
no one will kick you off the sidewalk. And they shouldn't.

Dumbass Drunk Guy shouldn't have been hollering
so loud at the radio interview, just as he wouldn't
have been tolerated if he wandered onto the podium
during the presentations (remember the guy that
Hinault bum-rushed at the TdF?) But not because
the "product" is sacred. And physically
confronting him was also a mistake.

Ben

Paul G. wrote:
Anyone who wants to destroy cyclocross should behave as Monkey Boy
advocates. I wouldn't be surprised if the sponsors of McAnus's team and
the event are not pleased with his antics. If the school board of his
district hears about it, he might even lose his job. Actions have
consequences.

Au Contraire, if they had regular after race fights the Nascar fans
would all flock to cyclocross races.

wrote:
On the other hand, you cango to the Tour or a local crit and hold up a
sign that says LANCE (or even Christophe Moreau) is a doper, or even a
sign that says cyclists should get off the roads, and no one will kick
you off the sidewalk. And they shouldn't.

Or even paint penii and vaginae on Utah roads.

On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 22:58:14 -0500, MagillaGorilla
wrote:

The interview is part of the sporting event. It's fair game. Here's how
you know it's fair game, JT...if it's okay to cheer, then it's okay to
boo. If you can do it from your seat, it's fine.

I think the journalist would asked people cheering to pipe down for
awhile during the interview.

On Dec 30, 4:09*am, "
wrote:


Anyway, if you came and screamed that stuff outside
my office, it would probably take a while before somebody
got the cops to come and kick you out of the building,
but nothing would happen, you wouldn't get a ticket,
and it would probably take several incidents before
they even managed to ban you from campus.

If you came and screamed that stuff outside a class
I was teaching, I would be more annoyed, not for
myself but because you'd be hurting the students
by disrupting the class. *This is more analogous to
disrupting an interview as opposed to heckling at
the race. *However, the post-race environment is
hardly as controlled as a classroom - more tolerance
of moderate public drunkenness, for example.

dumbass,

bill c imagines a scenario where there are "no repercussions. but
there are always repercussions, just not always immediate legal
repercussions.

there is a big social repercussion: people will think you are insane,
drunk, annoying or lack control. those social repercussions are very
strong and will always be there, even at sports events.

On Dec 30, 2:29*am, Amit Ghosh wrote:
O

there is a line that can be crossed, but when you do cross that line
it can get you arrested eg. intoxicated in public, assault, vandalism,
creating a disturbance. just being disparaging isn't crossing that
line.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Amit we don't know, and never will whether that line was crossed
because the Page folks went vigilante. Those types of things are
judgement calls by the cop. I've seen **** much less get people locked
up, and much more allowed to go on. MB wants something clear cut here,
and the only thing in it is that the Page folks made physical contact,
and that's battery. An official could've asked him to stop because he
was still a licensed racer on event grounds during an event, if he
didn't comply he could be suspended, fined, etc.., or they could've
gotten a cop, either way they screwed the pooch on it. Fred's got his
priorities right on this one, in that the assault is a much more
serious matter than the drunken heckler.
Bill C

On Dec 30, 4:09*am, "
wrote:
On Dec 29, 4:29 pm, Bill C wrote:





On Dec 29, 6:10 pm, Amit Ghosh wrote:

dumbass,

i am sick of these "emotional" tough guys like phil moore and kunich
who want to beat up people who insult them on the internet.

these are the same types of guys that get into shoving matches at
bars, stalk ex-girlfriends and eventually put a barrel of a shotgun in
their mouth.

I'm also sick of loud mothed assholes screaming out garbage,
disrupting others people's right to speak, ruining others people's
events to stroke their sad little egos. Your right to be an asshole
ends at my right to conduct my life and business. I'd love to come up
there where I'm guessing you teach some classes and scream throught
them about how you plagiarized a bunch of your papers, insinuate you
molest little boys, and all kinds of other garbage with NO
repercussions for my actions at all.

That's sort of a weird screwed up analogy. *I just don't
really understand why that would come to your mind.
Nobody says McAninch heckled Page by accusing him
of heinous crimes and so on.

Anyway, if you came and screamed that stuff outside
my office, it would probably take a while before somebody
got the cops to come and kick you out of the building,
but nothing would happen, you wouldn't get a ticket,
and it would probably take several incidents before
they even managed to ban you from campus.

If you came and screamed that stuff outside a class
I was teaching, I would be more annoyed, not for
myself but because you'd be hurting the students
by disrupting the class. *This is more analogous to
disrupting an interview as opposed to heckling at
the race. *However, the post-race environment is
hardly as controlled as a classroom - more tolerance
of moderate public drunkenness, for example.

*A race, like any other sanctioned sporting event is controlled by the
organizing body, it's not a public area. It's a private event where
the public is allowed access. With that come certain standards of
behavior, especially where they could damage the product, as this
asshole did.
*Bill C

The public has a right to free expression that
trumps "damaging the product" as long as it doesn't
create a nuisance or disturb the peace. *For example,
if I went to an Redskins game and held up a sign that
said the NFL sucks or Dan Snyder sucks or something
like that, the stadium security might hassle me if they
noticed it. *On the other hand, you can go to the
Tour or a local crit and hold up a sign that says LANCE
(or even Christophe Moreau) is a doper, or even a
sign that says cyclists should get off the roads, and
no one will kick you off the sidewalk. *And they shouldn't.

Dumbass Drunk Guy shouldn't have been hollering
so loud at the radio interview, just as he wouldn't
have been tolerated if he wandered onto the podium
during the presentations (remember the guy that
Hinault bum-rushed at the TdF?) *But not because
the "product" is sacred. *And physically
confronting him was also a mistake.

Ben- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sorry Ben you're wrong on what could happen at a race.
McA was, and is a licensed racer, at a USAC event, an official
could've done anything up to having him removed and suspended. It's
not routine, but happens commonly that riders are warned for their
language where spectators, or press can hear it, and can be, and have
been fined for it. If he didn't stop that gets into disregarding an
Officials order and that's another can of worms. We go through this
with helmets all the time. If you hold a license, and are at an event,
you MUST wear a helmet at all times, not just when you are racing,
same goes for the rest of the code of conduct. Generally an official
is not going to go looking for this stuff, but during a post race
interview, which is clearly part of the event, they would become
involved.
That goes along with having signed the contract for your license,
same as the doping stuff. Mc A was both liable for action both under
the USAC rulebook, and under the civil police. As were the Pages.
Gonna be interesting to see how this all shakes out.
There's the "penalize the person who caused the issue" theory, and
then there's the "What's more serious" theory, but either way USAC
should, based on past performance, issue some suspensions here at a
minimum. The only thing that might save them was that none of this was
apparently witnessed by an official.
Bill C
Bill C

On Dec 29, 10:50*pm, MagillaGorilla wrote:
Fred Fredburger wrote:
Bill C wrote:

the responsibility
has to accompany the freedom.

There you go.

What does responsibility mean with respect to this matter? *You people
keep using vague adjectives to imply something, but always leave your
main point unspoken. *Perhaps it's because you really can't articulate
what it is you are trying to imply.

Magilla

Dumbass, you obviously are hard of comprehending today. Your right to
free speech does not include the right to stop my free speech. The
corresponding responsibility to your free speech is to allow others
their free speech. Unfortunately that's become a lost concept these
days.
There was a Greek politician, last week I think, talking about how
the riots were a great thing and showed how Greek democracy was
working well.
My take on that is just the opposite. if you are likely to be
firebombed, or dragged out of your house and beaten for speaking out,
then you have no democracy, you have the Weimar Republic and the SA.
The core of a democracy is in protecting the ability of everyone to
speak, without blocking others, and especially protecting dissenting
minority opinions.
Canada, the US, and Europe are failing miserably on this, the USless
so than the others but we are getting there.
Bill C

"Amit Ghosh" wrote in message
...

i don't think like you. only meatheads would flip out and get physical
over words.

You mean like the Constitution? Or the Declaration of Independence?

In article ,
Donald Munro wrote:

Amit Ghosh wrote:
i work in a high stress environment where heckling and verbal
abuse can be at a level that would wither 90% of people. thin skinned
crybabies that can't adapt just end up leaving.

You get paid to post to rbr ?

He's a high school teacher.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."