How to get more speed out of a recumbent?

BlankI've been riding my Vision R44 for about 4 years now. I call it my luxury cruiser as it is equipped with wide tires, a front shock and USS and I typically carry a number of water bottles. Weight reduction has not been a goal as I weigh in at 240 lbs. I live in TX and hit most of the organized rides in the Central TX area going between 45 to 107 miles during a ride. These are typically hilly rides (TX Hill Country River Region tour, The Kerrville Easter ride, etc...) So I've put the time in and built up my leg muscles and cardio. Riding around San Marcos, TX I can typically get 14-15 mph ave.

Here's the question... How do I get more speed out of my current bike? I've read that I need to inflate the tires to their max pressure, buy a tail sock or a front fairing. Any idea as to which will give me the greatest improvement in performance?

Or maybe the answer is to buy a new bike. I've test ridden the Rans F-5. I like the bike and it appears to be faster, but I lose some of the comfortable ride characteristics of my Vision. I'm guessing a gain in speed will probably mean a loss of comfort. Any comments.

Grande News wrote:

Or maybe the answer is to buy a new bike. I've test ridden the Rans F-5.
I like the bike and it appears to be faster, but I lose some of the
comfortable ride characteristics of my Vision. I'm guessing a gain in
speed will probably mean a loss of comfort. Any comments.

Have a look at something like the HP Vel Speedmachine. It's not exactly
lightning up hills because of the weight, but the weight is going on
useful things that improve your comfort. The suspension actually
improves efficiency over bumpier roads which in turn leads to improved
performance in the right circumstances, as well as making the bike
considerably more comfortable in the same places. Another aspect of the
suspension is you can max out the tyre pressure without compromising the
ride so much.

The frontal area is lower than your Vision so the aerodynamics should be
better. Tailboxes are available as standard extras to tweak a little
more out of it, as is the Streamer front fairing though HP Vel don't
recommend it for the Speedmachine, but it's certainly been used on them.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Blank"Grande News" wrote

I've been riding my Vision R44 for about 4 years now. I call it my
luxury cruiser [...] rides in the Central TX area going between 45 to 107
miles during a ride. These are typically hilly rides (TX Hill Country
River Region tour, The Kerrville Easter ride, etc...) So I've put the
time in and built up my leg muscles and cardio. Riding around
San Marcos, TX I can typically get 14-15 mph ave.

Seems quite respectable average speed, given the terrain.

Here's the question... How do I get more speed out of my current bike?
I've read that I need to inflate the tires to their max pressure, buy a
tail sock or a front fairing. Any idea as to which will give me the
greatest improvement in performance?

You don't mention cadence. Training to spin higher RPMs may help
you get faster. Cletus Lee observed significant gains in overall speed
after training at higher cadence at lower speeds. Different tires or
aerodynamic changes may help, but in my experience, moving up
from 14-15 mph average seems to require mainly more riding.
Overall weight reduction could help with hills.

Or maybe the answer is to buy a new bike. I've test ridden the Rans

A motion to buy a new bike is always in order! %^)

F-5. I like the bike and it appears to be faster, but I lose some of the
comfortable ride characteristics of my Vision. I'm guessing a gain in
speed will probably mean a loss of comfort. Any comments.

I'm faster on my Tour Easy than on my BikeE and faster still on
my Volae Sport, though especially fast on any of them, I am not.
Narrow tires and lighter weight help the Volae. The Tour Easy
is most comfortable cruising, but the Volae is not uncomfortable.
The Tour Easy benefits from the fairing and the Volae from the
rider position (I'm still getting adjusted to it). The BikeE is (still)
a great utility and exercise bike. New friends and old friends,
silver and gold...

Buy another bike, if you can afford it, and keep the R44. Go low,
go high, go long,-- try as many as you can. Carpe bikem! %^)

Jon Meinecke

"Peter Clinch" wrote in message
...
Grande News wrote:

Or maybe the answer is to buy a new bike. I've test ridden the Rans F-5.
I like the bike and it appears to be faster, but I lose some of the
comfortable ride characteristics of my Vision. I'm guessing a gain in
speed will probably mean a loss of comfort. Any comments.

Have a look at something like the HP Vel Speedmachine.

Huh? Have you ridden an HPV Speedmachine? They're low, sleek, beautiful,
very comfortable and expensive; but I'd never call them fast. My buddy has
one which he calls the "Slowmachine." I found it to be twitchy and
inefficient. The suspension eats pedaling energy. Like many heavy
recumbents, it's fast going downhill; but that's about it. I have tried a
downhill run on a Speedmachine, and it was a white-knuckle ride with that
twitchy steering. It needs steerer dampening or more fork trail.

I encountered a married couple riding Speedmachines once on an organized
tour. We were on conventional road bikes (DF), and they couldn't keep up
even at modest speeds. One of the Speedmachines kept dropping its chain
every few miles. We got tired of waiting for them and went on ahead. Damn
nice looking bikes; but that experience wasn't exactly an advertisement for
their speed or quality of engineering.

The frontal area is lower than your Vision so the aerodynamics should be
better. Tailboxes are available as standard extras to tweak a little more
out of it, as is the Streamer front fairing though HP Vel don't recommend
it for the Speedmachine, but it's certainly been used on them.

The lack of speed on the Speedmachine comes down to a few things:

1) open riding position
2) high bottom bracket
3) power-robbing suspension
4) heavy weight

For the kind of $$$$ that you have to spend to get an HPV Speedmachine,
there are a lot of fast bikes to look at. Heck, I'll bet a $650 Action Bent
with the seat lowered all the way would keep right up with a Speedmachine
(mainly due to the lack of power-robbing suspension).

Sorry, I don't mean to hit HPV so hard. This is more of a commentary on the
design of recumbents, with Speedmachines being the example case. There are
a.r.b.r Speedmachine riders who love their bikes, and find them plenty fast.
My experience, and observations, are different.

__________ wrote:

Huh? Have you ridden an HPV Speedmachine? =20

Yes.

They're low, sleek, beautiful,=20
very comfortable and expensive; but I'd never call them fast. My buddy=
has=20
one which he calls the "Slowmachine." I found it to be twitchy and=20
inefficient. The suspension eats pedaling energy. Like many heavy=20
recumbents, it's fast going downhill; but that's about it. I have trie=
d a=20
downhill run on a Speedmachine, and it was a white-knuckle ride with th=
at=20
twitchy steering. It needs steerer dampening or more fork trail.

Any twitchiness I found was with the tiller steering, but since I tend=20
to find any tillers twitchy that doesn't mean much. With the Superman=20
bars I found the steering very natural and not at all twitchy. On a=20
ride last Saturday a recumbent novice tried someone's tiller steered SpM =

and immediately proclaimed how much happier he was with the solid feel=20
of the steering than on the Challenge Mistral he'd been on up until then.=


I don't know how your friend has set up the suspesnion, but IME HP Vels=20
are very well set up so that there's very little pedal bob and=20
efficiency loss from the suspension (I have a Streetmachine GT, and will =

readily concede that *that* is not a fast bike except down hills).

http://www.bentrideronline.com/reviews/speedmachine.htm has this to say:

"The first thing that struck me about the Speedmachine was its=20
suspension system. The rear half of the bike is sprung by=20
HPVelotechnik=92s appropriately named and proven "No Squat" swingarm and =
a=20
DX coil over shock. This system works even better on the Speedmachine=20
than it does on the Street Machine it was designed for. I felt virtually =

no pogo effect even when sprinting.

The front suspension on the Speedmachine is even more impressive. Its=20
front shock is very similar to a Cannondale Headshock suspension fork.=20
The suspension itself is an elastomer/spring unit that is housed in the=20
bike=92s head tube. The whole thing rides on cartridge bearings instead o=
f=20
a conventional headset. My experience as a Cannondale mechanic tells me=20
that this set up should be plenty durable for road use. The=20
HPVelotechnik front suspension soaks up every imperfection in the road=20
admirably and doesn=92t suck power any more or less than the rear=20
suspension. The two systems are perfectly matched. Overall, I would have =

to say that the Speedmachine has the best system of any full-suspension=20
recumbent that I=92ve ever ridden."

I encountered a married couple riding Speedmachines once on an organize=
d=20
tour. We were on conventional road bikes (DF), and they couldn't keep =
up=20
even at modest speeds. One of the Speedmachines kept dropping its chai=
n=20
every few miles. We got tired of waiting for them and went on ahead. =
Damn=20
nice looking bikes; but that experience wasn't exactly an advertisement=
for=20
their speed or quality of engineering.

Whether folk can keep up or not usually has more to do with the engine=20
than the bike. If a bike drops its chain is usually due to the=20
adjustment of the derailleur, not to the overall design.

The lack of speed on the Speedmachine comes down to a few things:
=20
1) open riding position
2) high bottom bracket
3) power-robbing suspension
4) heavy weight

I'm not sure quite what you mean by 1), 2) doesn't seem to stop the=20
Varna Diabalo from holding the world speed record, you seem to be very=20
much in a minority about 3) (the owner of the Speedmachine mentioned=20
above that lent her mount to a Mistral rider has bought it specifically=20
/because/ of the suspension, finding her Windcheetach a bit rough on=20
poorer roads, she hasn't ridden the Windcheetah since she got the SpM).

4) I noted in my original post. But the OP wanted serious comfort, and=20
the things that make a SpM heavy also make it more comfortable. Back to =

that BROL review...

"The HPVelotechnik is also capable of tearing up the pavement between=20
the corners. The Speedmachine doesn't lose too much ground on most roads =

to other quasi-lowracers and more than lives up to its name for the most =

part. I found the Speedmachine to be slightly faster than the Challenge=20
Hurricane in most respects, but slightly slower that the M5 Shock Proof. =

The only area where it was noticeably slower than its competition was on =

climbs. This is probably due to its weight, full suspension and a little =

power loss to boom flex.

One area where the Speedmachine definitely has its competitors trumped=20
is in comfort. The bike's suspension removed every hint of harshness=20
from the ride."

But, it was just a suggestion as to type as much as anything. How about =

one of the suspended Challenge SL series? Won't be as comfy as a SpM,=20
but are certainly much lighter and should be faster.

Pete.
--=20
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch wrote:

[Major snippage]

Wot 'e said. I /have/ seen a SpM bobbing a bit, but that was due to J-P's
rather erratic pedalling action. Spin and ye shall be rewarded. I have
more than 18,000 km on mine now and while it's slower than the Baron, it's
considerably faster than the Kingcycle SWB I owned previously and does it
all over 99% of the uprights it encounters from a great height. The
exception being a beardy bloke on a Cannondale Bad Boy, who has bionic
blood.

--
Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
Funsize Mars bars? What could possibly be MORE fun about eating LESS
chocolate?

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 22:47:40 -0500, "Grande News"
wrote:

BlankI've been riding my Vision R44 for about 4 years now. I call it my luxury cruiser as it is equipped with wide tires, a front shock and USS and I typically carry a number of water bottles. Weight reduction has not been a goal as I weigh in at 240 lbs. I live in TX and hit most of the organized rides in the Central TX area going between 45 to 107 miles during a ride. These are typically hilly rides (TX Hill Country River Region tour, The Kerrville Easter ride, etc...) So I've put the time in and built up my leg muscles and cardio. Riding around San Marcos, TX I can typically get 14-15 mph ave.

Here's the question... How do I get more speed out of my current bike? I've read that I need to inflate the tires to their max pressure, buy a tail sock or a front fairing. Any idea as to which will give me the greatest improvement in performance?

Or maybe the answer is to buy a new bike. I've test ridden the Rans F-5. I like the bike and it appears to be faster, but I lose some of the comfortable ride characteristics of my Vision. I'm guessing a gain in speed will probably mean a loss of comfort. Any comments.

narrow high pressure tires may add 3mph to your ride. thats abotu what
I gained on my downhill coasting tests.
but then of course you have harder tires that absorb far less shock.
areodynamics don't play a very big roll till you get into the 18 to
20mph range.
Knight-Toolworks
http://www.knight-toolworks.com
affordable handmade wooden planes

"Dave Larrington" wrote in message
...
Peter Clinch wrote:

[Major snippage]

Wot 'e said. I /have/ seen a SpM bobbing a bit, but that was due to J-P's
rather erratic pedalling action. Spin and ye shall be rewarded. I have
more than 18,000 km on mine now and while it's slower than the Baron, it's
considerably faster than the Kingcycle SWB I owned previously and does it
all over 99% of the uprights it encounters from a great height. The
exception being a beardy bloke on a Cannondale Bad Boy, who has bionic
blood.

--
Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
Funsize Mars bars? What could possibly be MORE fun about eating LESS
chocolate?



I agree with those English blokes. I have about 2000mi on mine now and I'm
several mph faster than I was on my VREX. I had to replace the original DNM
spring/air shock and when I put on a DT Swiss shock handling became quite
precise.



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BlankNo offense but lose the weight, works great for me
"Grande News" wrote in message ...
I've been riding my Vision R44 for about 4 years now. I call it my luxury cruiser as it is equipped with wide tires, a front shock and USS and I typically carry a number of water bottles. Weight reduction has not been a goal as I weigh in at 240 lbs. I live in TX and hit most of the organized rides in the Central TX area going between 45 to 107 miles during a ride. These are typically hilly rides (TX Hill Country River Region tour, The Kerrville Easter ride, etc...) So I've put the time in and built up my leg muscles and cardio. Riding around San Marcos, TX I can typically get 14-15 mph ave.

Here's the question... How do I get more speed out of my current bike? I've read that I need to inflate the tires to their max pressure, buy a tail sock or a front fairing. Any idea as to which will give me the greatest improvement in performance?

Or maybe the answer is to buy a new bike. I've test ridden the Rans F-5. I like the bike and it appears to be faster, but I lose some of the comfortable ride characteristics of my Vision. I'm guessing a gain in speed will probably mean a loss of comfort. Any comments.

"Dave Larrington" wrote in message
...
Peter Clinch wrote:

[Major snippage]

Wot 'e said. I /have/ seen a SpM bobbing a bit, but that was due to J-P's
rather erratic pedalling action. Spin and ye shall be rewarded. I have
more than 18,000 km on mine now and while it's slower than the Baron, it's
considerably faster than the Kingcycle SWB I owned previously and does it
all over 99% of the uprights it encounters from a great height. The
exception being a beardy bloke on a Cannondale Bad Boy, who has bionic
blood.

--
Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/

Agreed, I almost bought one before I tested the Baron