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#1
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Considering a 'bent
Hi All,
I like cycling in all forms, and have been toying with the idea of a recumbent for quite a while. I race upright bikes, like to ride fast, and just ride a lot in general. I live in a rural setting, and do not ride in congested urban areas. The idea behind getting a recumbent would be to just ride around for fun, and perhaps to do some endurance races. I think I would like under seat steering, mostly because having my arms hang from bars seems like it would be less comfortable, plus I like the idea of a less obstructed view. I also think I would like more of a high-racer type than a low racer. This would be for improved visibilty, and being able to participate in pacelines with upright bikes and have it work to some degree. I have long legs (shins in particular) so I'm not too worried about starting or stopping. But I really want speed and stability, so maybe a low racer is the way to go? Mostly I've been looking at the bikes from Challenge. So what do I want? A Serian, a Hurricane, or a Jester? Or something else? And why? Joseph |
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#3
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Considering a 'bent
wrote in
I race upright bikes, like to ride fast, and just ride a lot in general. Bike racing (UCI) and recumbents don't jive. %^P You should be aware that there are people, some quite accomplished fast upright riders, who don't end up getting what they expect when they try recumbents. It's best to calibrate your expectations by trying as many different recumbents as you can before you buy. Yes, there is a body adjustment time,-- slightly different muscles used, for instance. Be prepared to spin, spin, spin for hills. Push too hard, too fast on a recumbent, and you may damage your knees. The idea behind getting a recumbent would be to just ride around for fun, I have three different recumbent bikes. The one I choose to "ride around for fun" isn't the fastest, newest, or most expensive. It's a BikeE! %^) But that almost certainly isn't the bike for you! I also have a Tour Easy for touring and a Volae Sport for road riding. and perhaps to do some endurance races. Increased comfort and better ergonomics of recumbents may help with endurance. I think I would like under seat steering, Note, USS may be less aerodynamic than OSS. I also think I would like more of a high-racer type than a low racer. This would be for improved visibilty, Visibility differences between low and high racers may be less than you think. and being able to participate in pacelines with upright bikes Participation in pacelines may depend more on the group dynamics of the upright riders. You may be like Rudolf, not welcome to join their games. %^) A high racer may be more compatible with their view of what a proper bike is,-- at least it has wheels and wheelbase similar to their bikes. and have it work to some degree. Different recumbents will have different slipstream potential. I ride both my Voale high racer and my Tour Easy LWB with friends who ride uprights. This isn't team/club riding, but mainly social riding,-- a friend and me riding mostly side-by-side. On the rare occasion when we ride nose-to-tail, I get plenty of benefit when they're pulling regardless of which bike I'm on. When I'm on my Tour Easy, riding into a strong wind I often do the pulling. That bike has a front fairing that probably adds 2-3 mph for the same pedalling effort once wind speed is 20 mph or higher. I suspect the Tour Easy generates a larger "shadow" than the Volae, just based on the difference in front profile. Of course, going up hill the 38 lbs the Tour Easy weighs is not necessarily an advantage. %^P [...] I really want speed and stability, so maybe a low racer is the way to go? All other things being equal, speed advantage goes to the lower bike. Stability at speed likely goes to the longer wheelbase bike. Acceleration and climbing advantage generally goes to the lighter bike and stiffer frame. But the only way to know what works best for you is to try them. Mostly I've been looking at the bikes from Challenge. So what do I want? A Serian, a Hurricane, or a Jester? Or something else? And why? If it's "about the bike", a carbon fiber lower racer may be the answer. http://www.velokraft.com Check out the message boards at www.bentrideronline.com. Join and ask your questions there, there are a number of fast recumbent riders who seem to hang out there. Jon |
#4
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Considering a 'bent
On Jun 18, 5:37*pm, Peter Clinch wrote:
wrote: I think I would like Stop there! *I've seen it more than once that someone goes into 'bents with well-researched preconceptions about what they want but when they get some time in on real ones they end up using something else entirely. So my advice would be get time in on as many models as you can find and /then/ decide what you want (possibly extending to forgetting the whole thing). Wise words I'm sure! under seat steering, mostly because having my arms hang from bars seems like it would be less comfortable, plus I like the idea of a less obstructed view. I prefer USS myself, but I've used ASS a fair bit and the comfort difference is actually negligible. *While "superman" type bars do get in the line of view, tiller bars typically don't, being held just above the chest. *So you can get ASS that doesn't compromise on what you're really after (comfort and view)., and it should be better aerodynamically so that means faster, and you say you want speed. I was thinking mostly about shoulder comfort, but I suppose I just have to try to see. I'm not worried that ASS would obstruct my view in a way that would make me uncomfortable or nervous, just that the more open view appeals to me for some reason. I do want speed, but since I won't be measuring against other racing recumbents, the difference with USS probably won't make much of a difference. It would be fun to come clean everyone's clock at out local TT series (for uprights). I also think I would like more of a high-racer type than a low racer. This would be for improved visibilty, and being able to participate in pacelines with upright bikes and have it work to some degree. Experienced 'bent riders typically find the visibility thing is a bit of a non-issue. *As for the paceline, you'll need to be aware that 'bents and uprights have their relative strengths in different places so even if you're higher up it may not work that well. *But I've not tried it (i'm slow and don't race), so that's a "possible" rather than a "definite" in the problem stakes. I would only ride in a paceline with a handful of friends for the novelty of them trying to hold my wheel as I punch a small hole in the air with my 400W. But apart from the differing strengths and weaknesses, do you think a high-racer type would be more likely to be able to succesfully paceline with uprights? *I have long legs (shins in particular) so I'm not too worried about starting or stopping. But I really want speed and stability, so maybe a low racer is the way to go? No particular reason for a low to be more stable than a high: I think handling differences will be implementation specific, so again try things out to see. I was considering the longer wheelbase of low-racer types, but I suppose you are correct that there are many other factors at play. Mostly I've been looking at the bikes from Challenge. So what do I want? A Serian, a Hurricane, or a Jester? Or something else? And why? The times I've tried Challenge the seat really didn't agree with me that much at all. *If the seat isn't to your liking then the point of getting a 'bent tends to become rather limited... *You may like Challenge seats where I don't, but the only way to be sure is to try them, and the same goes for other manufacturers (quite a lot of the preference difference between my HP Velotechnik Streetmachine and my wife's Nazca Fiero is down to the difference in the seat, hers being cut away around the shoulder blades and mine supporting them, she prefers hers, I prefer mine). Try everything you can get your hands on. *Then you'll know what you want. |
#5
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Considering a 'bent
wrote:
[cuuuuuuut] I was thinking mostly about shoulder comfort, but I suppose I just have to try to see. I'm not worried that ASS would obstruct my view in a way that would make me uncomfortable or nervous, just that the more open view appeals to me for some reason. The shoulder comfort is just fine on my cruzbike freerider with big handlebars. I dont think other recumbents with normal steering has any worse shoulder comfort. I think it will be fine on all. I do want speed, but since I won't be measuring against other racing recumbents, the difference with USS probably won't make much of a difference. It would be fun to come clean everyone's clock at out local TT series (for uprights). Are you sure you are allowed to use a recumbent in a upright race? They are usually uptight! it must be the hard saddle. [cuuuuuut] Part of my problem is I live in rural Norway. Not that in the civilized world there are recumbent shops on every corner, but here they are indeed scarce. So trying lots of bikes is going to prove difficult. There is however an HP Velotechnik dealer not that far away. Their adjustable seat looks promising on their website. Maybe a Speedmachine is in my future... A test ride at least. You might want to try this guy www.sykkel-bent.no He has almost the same kind of bike as i do, only the handlebars are different and it has more gears. I frequent the cruzbike forum, where he talks about his ride with racers. He might give you some advice. On the cruzbike forum i read that the cruzbike Silvio frame is really fast and it takes standard road racing parts. JonB |
#6
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Considering a 'bent
On Jun 18, 9:22*pm, Jon Bendtsen wrote:
wrote: [cuuuuuuut] I was thinking mostly about shoulder comfort, but I suppose I just have to try to see. I'm not worried that ASS would obstruct my view in a way that would make me uncomfortable or nervous, just that the more open view appeals to me for some reason. The shoulder comfort is just fine on my cruzbike freerider with big handlebars. I dont think other recumbents with normal steering has any worse shoulder comfort. I think it will be fine on all. Another thing was the elbow angle. When I read in bed for example with elbows at 90 deg or more for any length of time my hands get numb. Obviously apples and oranges, but the more extended arm position of USS looks more comfortable to me. I do want speed, but since I won't be measuring against other racing recumbents, the difference with USS probably won't make much of a difference. It would be fun to come clean everyone's clock at out local TT series (for uprights). Are you sure you are allowed to use a recumbent in a upright race? They are usually uptight! it must be the hard saddle. Probably not, but it is rather informal, so my times might not count, but they would certainly let me ride and report my times. [cuuuuuut] Part of my problem is I live in rural Norway. Not that in the civilized world there are recumbent shops on every corner, but here they are indeed scarce. So trying lots of bikes is going to prove difficult. There is however an HP Velotechnik dealer not that far away. Their adjustable seat looks promising on their website. Maybe a Speedmachine is in my future... A test ride at least. You might want to try this guy * * * *www.sykkel-bent.no He has almost the same kind of bike as i do, only the handlebars are different and it has more gears. I frequent the cruzbike forum, where he talks about his ride with racers. He might give you some advice. I'll contact that guy for advice, but he is about 5 hours drive from me, so unlikely I'll go try/buy one of his bikes. If I travel, I'll go someplace like Denmark and find a place with a big selection and combine the trip with some other task. On the cruzbike forum i read that the cruzbike Silvio frame is really fast and it takes standard road racing parts. That's pretty cool. I could use the same race wheels. I'm 6'3", so I wonder how open my position would be. Does it make any differenc ein terms of power how open or closed one is? Thanks for tips. Joseph |
#7
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Considering a 'bent
On Jun 18, 3:44 pm, "
wrote: Another thing was the elbow angle. When I read in bed for example with elbows at 90 deg or more for any length of time my hands get numb. Obviously apples and oranges, but the more extended arm position of USS looks more comfortable to me. There are two kinds of USS--the kind that has your hands out in front, arms extended to some extent, to the side of your thighs and the kind that has your hands truly under your seat. If shoulder comfort is one of your concerns, you don't want the latter kind of USS. You will end up effectively reaching behind your back for the handlebars. My shoulders don't like that after too long. One other USS consideration is thigh interference. While long shins help you put a foot down, long thighs are important too so that while seated and leaned back you can comfortably get your knee beyond the steering, especially on direct-steered (as opposed to those with a linkage that lets them sit further back and out of the way) USS systems. The Challenge Seiran does seem like it should be at the top of your list based on your criteria. I used to be an USS fanatic, but have found that the "superman" or tweener OSS steering is nice too and the view out the front is only a little bit blocked by the steering mechanism. What is blocked/lost more though is the *feeling* of having nothing in front of you that USS gives over any type of OSS, including the "begging hamster" type. So I'd also suggest one of the Bacchetta high racers. But as Peter wrote, try everything you can. |
#8
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Considering a 'bent
wrote:
Part of my problem is I live in rural Norway. Not that in the civilized world there are recumbent shops on every corner, but here they are indeed scarce. So trying lots of bikes is going to prove difficult. If it's something you'll be spending well over 10,000 Krone on then I think it makes sense to spend a little more for insurance... see if you can get a cheap flight to NL and once you're there it's /relatively/ easy to spend a weekend testing alternatives (even the other side of the country is quite close and fairly well connected by public transport, after all). And I wouldn't worry too much about being 6'3": the Dutch are the tallest nation in Europe and they're also the ones making the most recumbents. There is however an HP Velotechnik dealer not that far away. Their adjustable seat looks promising on their website. Maybe a Speedmachine is in my future... A test ride at least. Certainly worth a test ride. I'm actually a bit ambivalent about the Bodylink seat, finding the distinctly sized (choice of small, medium or large) non-adjusting ones they used to use quite a bit more comfortable. Having spent some considerable time faffing with lots of adjustments just to endup with something not quite as good as what as I had to start with is a bit frustrating, but obviously the market feedback suggests a lot of happy customers that don't feel the same way! Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
#9
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Considering a 'bent
wrote:
On Jun 18, 9:22 pm, Jon Bendtsen wrote: wrote: [cut] The shoulder comfort is just fine on my cruzbike freerider with big handlebars. I dont think other recumbents with normal steering has any worse shoulder comfort. I think it will be fine on all. Another thing was the elbow angle. When I read in bed for example with elbows at 90 deg or more for any length of time my hands get numb. Obviously apples and oranges, but the more extended arm position of USS looks more comfortable to me. Okay, i'll think about what my elbow angle is next time i ride it. My bikes handlebar mount can be pushed forward, or backwards which would change the angle. [cuuuuuut] Part of my problem is I live in rural Norway. Not that in the civilized world there are recumbent shops on every corner, but here they are indeed scarce. So trying lots of bikes is going to prove difficult. There is however an HP Velotechnik dealer not that far away. Their adjustable seat looks promising on their website. Maybe a Speedmachine is in my future... A test ride at least. You might want to try this guy www.sykkel-bent.no He has almost the same kind of bike as i do, only the handlebars are different and it has more gears. I frequent the cruzbike forum, where he talks about his ride with racers. He might give you some advice. I'll contact that guy for advice, but he is about 5 hours drive from me, so unlikely I'll go try/buy one of his bikes. If I travel, I'll go someplace like Denmark and find a place with a big selection and combine the trip with some other task. I am not sure Denmark is such a good place, maybe the netherlands is more the place to look. In Denmark we have no manufactures other than Leitra, and i doubt thats what you want. As for resellers, i think there is only one big place, but take a look at: http://liggecykelforeningen.dk/Generelt/Forhandlere it is in Danish, but that shouldnt really bother a Norvegian. The big reseller is Cykel-Optimisten (Horsens) - http://www.cykel-optimisten.dk/ I was there myself. Nice guy, but he didnt have what i wanted. On the cruzbike forum i read that the cruzbike Silvio frame is really fast and it takes standard road racing parts. That's pretty cool. I could use the same race wheels. I'm 6'3", so I wonder how open my position would be. Does it make any differenc ein terms of power how open or closed one is? I think the open or closed thing makes a difference. The cruzbike website and forum talks about pulling in the handlebars and thus closing to gain extra strength. I tried it myself, and it appears to be working, especially uphill. Unfortunately my stamina is not yet there where i can do this for longer times. The good thing about the cruzbike design is that even while the seat is pretty static, then you can move the bottom bracket in and out to adjust for a small or tall riders. So, if you want a more closed position, move it in. JonB |
#10
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Considering a 'bent
Jon Bendtsen wrote:
wrote: On Jun 18, 9:22 pm, Jon Bendtsen wrote: wrote: [cut] The shoulder comfort is just fine on my cruzbike freerider with big handlebars. I dont think other recumbents with normal steering has any worse shoulder comfort. I think it will be fine on all. Another thing was the elbow angle. When I read in bed for example with elbows at 90 deg or more for any length of time my hands get numb. Obviously apples and oranges, but the more extended arm position of USS looks more comfortable to me. Okay, i'll think about what my elbow angle is next time i ride it. My bikes handlebar mount can be pushed forward, or backwards which would change the angle. It seems like shoulder angle is 40-45 degrees if 0 is standing up straight and having the arm hanging down. Elbow angle was about 135. |
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