"No sports mistake is supposed to be fatal"

In article ,
Michael Press wrote:

In article
,
" wrote:

Skiers crash more often than lugers, I think, and perhaps
with fewer serious consequences. But my point is this:
Racing is not like riding, especially in skill sports as opposed
to endurance sports. Time differences are very small at
elite levels, and so top athletes are shaving the very edge
of what they can control. This is why even a Zoeggeler
or Maier can crash and burn, and Robbie Ventura slid
out in the last corner of his last pro criterium. A ski racer
who has never crashed out is probably too conservative to
be a top ski racer.

The point I am drifting toward is this.
Yes, elite competitors are risk takers.
They don't walk the edge, they sprint.
_However_, there are some risks they
do not take.

Micahel, I don't think he intentionally "took [that] risk" - it was an accident.
He made a mistake.

--
tanx,
Howard

Caught playing safe
It's a bored game

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:53:01 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

It's a short clip of Herman Maier's spectacular crash
on the downhill course at Nagano 1998, or rather off
the downhill course. Calling it a ski crash doesn't
really begin to describe it. He looks like he's suddenly
taken up parasailing without a parachute.
Everyone momentarily thought he was dead, although
in fact he won the super-G and giant slalom a few days
later.

The Womens downhill yesterday was borderline ridiculous. I've watched
the sport for years (know nothing about it from experience) and I
can't recall a course that seem to cause so much obvious problems for
so many of the elite of the elite competitors. To this casual
observor, I had to wonder if it was time to stop calling it a
challenging course and start calling it a failure. Half of the final
six crashing out is not supposed to be how it is IMO. Real skiiers can
feel free to say how I'm wrong on this.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

" wrote in message
...

The steel beam should be padded.

How much padding?

Dumbass -

I dunno, but when they've got people going 90 mph . . . .

kinetic energy increases with the square of velocity. If someone hits a
bare
steel beam going that fast, it'd be more surprising if they lived than if
they died.

Dumbasses,

Right. The solution to this problem is not padding,
but to not build a track with giant obstructions just
above it in the first place. Failing that, they should
have plexiglassed in the area above the track, the
exit region from the turn. (They hastily did a
makeshift version of that with plywood, too late.)
Plexi isn't as yielding as padding, but the
rider would have struck the plexi barrier a glancing
blow rather than dead-on, and tumbled down the
track, which probably would have hurt a lot but
wouldn't have been fatal.



Agreed.

wrote:


The Womens downhill yesterday was borderline ridiculous. I've watched
the sport for years (know nothing about it from experience) and I
can't recall a course that seem to cause so much obvious problems for
so many of the elite of the elite competitors. To this casual
observor, I had to wonder if it was time to stop calling it a
challenging course and start calling it a failure. Half of the final
six crashing out is not supposed to be how it is IMO. Real skiiers can
feel free to say how I'm wrong on this.

I'm like you, I only watch the women's skiing because I like watching
womenn who can crack unhusked coconuts betweenn their thighs, but I
interpreted what happened to be that Vonn was so fast the womenn who wanted
to winn recognized they had to push their ownn limits. Whenn you are
running flat out mistakes happenn, like Dave Zabriskie crashing at the end
of the TTT.

Inn fact, Vonn was so fast I assume she is a doper, using the Lemond
criterionn.

--
Bill Asher

In article ,
Howard Kveck wrote:

In article ,
Michael Press wrote:

In article
,
" wrote:

Skiers crash more often than lugers, I think, and perhaps
with fewer serious consequences. But my point is this:
Racing is not like riding, especially in skill sports as opposed
to endurance sports. Time differences are very small at
elite levels, and so top athletes are shaving the very edge
of what they can control. This is why even a Zoeggeler
or Maier can crash and burn, and Robbie Ventura slid
out in the last corner of his last pro criterium. A ski racer
who has never crashed out is probably too conservative to
be a top ski racer.

The point I am drifting toward is this.
Yes, elite competitors are risk takers.
They don't walk the edge, they sprint.
_However_, there are some risks they
do not take.

Micahel, I don't think he intentionally "took [that] risk" - it was an accident.
He made a mistake.

I am trying to make sense of it, so thinking of it as an accident
does not shine any light. As far as I know, no other sledders went
off course. The reason he went off course is because he took a
line that _guarantees_ going off course; not a risk, a guarantee.

--
Michael Press

In article ,
William Asher wrote:

wrote:


The Womens downhill yesterday was borderline ridiculous. I've watched
the sport for years (know nothing about it from experience) and I
can't recall a course that seem to cause so much obvious problems for
so many of the elite of the elite competitors. To this casual
observor, I had to wonder if it was time to stop calling it a
challenging course and start calling it a failure. Half of the final
six crashing out is not supposed to be how it is IMO. Real skiiers can
feel free to say how I'm wrong on this.

I'm like you, I only watch the women's skiing because I like watching
womenn who can crack unhusked coconuts betweenn their thighs, but I
interpreted what happened to be that Vonn was so fast the womenn who wanted
to winn recognized they had to push their ownn limits. Whenn you are
running flat out mistakes happenn, like Dave Zabriskie crashing at the end
of the TTT.

Inn fact, Vonn was so fast I assume she is a doper, using the Lemond
criterionn.

Possibly true. I assumed we were seeing that the depth in women's
downhill is quite low. See also: Canada 18, Slovakia 0.

Also, did you see the skiier who got about 5 metres from the start
house, and then toppled over sideways? Not the best.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Ryan Cousineau wrote:

In article ,
William Asher wrote:

wrote:


The Womens downhill yesterday was borderline ridiculous. I've
watched the sport for years (know nothing about it from experience)
and I can't recall a course that seem to cause so much obvious
problems for so many of the elite of the elite competitors. To this
casual observor, I had to wonder if it was time to stop calling it
a challenging course and start calling it a failure. Half of the
final six crashing out is not supposed to be how it is IMO. Real
skiiers can feel free to say how I'm wrong on this.

I'm like you, I only watch the women's skiing because I like watching
womenn who can crack unhusked coconuts betweenn their thighs, but I
interpreted what happened to be that Vonn was so fast the womenn who
wanted to winn recognized they had to push their ownn limits. Whenn
you are running flat out mistakes happenn, like Dave Zabriskie
crashing at the end of the TTT.

Inn fact, Vonn was so fast I assume she is a doper, using the Lemond
criterionn.

Possibly true. I assumed we were seeing that the depth in women's
downhill is quite low. See also: Canada 18, Slovakia 0.

Also, did you see the skiier who got about 5 metres from the start
house, and then toppled over sideways? Not the best.


Yes. That was one of the "crashes" but it just looked like a senior
moment. On the other hand the Frenchwoman was painful to watch. She was
so close and it looked like she ran out of gas at the end because she had
to go so hard.

Did Slovakia pull their goalie in the second period or something?

--
Bill Asher

On Feb 18, 2:50*pm, Ryan Cousineau wrote:
*William Asher wrote:
*wrote:

The Womens downhill yesterday was borderline ridiculous. I've watched
the sport for years (know nothing about it from experience) and I
can't recall a course that seem to cause so much obvious problems for
so many of the elite of the elite competitors. To this casual
observor, I had to wonder if it was time to stop calling it a
challenging course and start calling it a failure. Half of the final
six crashing out is not supposed to be how it is IMO. Real skiiers can
feel free to say how I'm wrong on this.

I'm like you, I only watch the women's skiing because I like watching
womenn who can crack unhusked coconuts betweenn their thighs, but I
interpreted what happened to be that Vonn was so fast the womenn who wanted
to winn recognized they had to push their ownn limits. *Whenn you are
running flat out mistakes happenn, like Dave Zabriskie crashing at the end
of the TTT. *

Inn fact, Vonn was so fast I assume she is a doper, using the Lemond
criterionn.

Possibly true. I assumed we were seeing that the depth in women's
downhill is quite low. See also: Canada 18, Slovakia 0.

I am not a real skier, but agree with Asher. Actually I also
think that, apart from Vonn, Mancuso's run was so impressive
that all the other skiers were compelled to ski the ragged
edge of control. Vonn was the only one who appeared
strong enough (physically, mentally) to do that and keep it together.

When you have someone like Anja Paersson crashing out,
that isn't a limited-depth problem. In general, as Curtis
alluded to, the final few skiers are most likely to be top flight
so crashing suggests pushing too hard rather than
limited skills.

One of my cow orkers said that in addition to the course
difficulty, the women hadn't practiced on the lower part
at full speed. They had to divide the practice runs in half
and only got one run due to bad weather.

In Paersson's flameout, you could see that she was in
the backseat (weight too far back) when she hit the takeoff
of that last jump, which gave her basically no chance
of landing it successfully. I don't know that one could
blame that on problems with the course or snow surface,
other than that it was an indication of overall difficulty
and fatigue. The section immediately before didn't
look like the hardest part of the course.

Possibly the last jump was bigger than it needed to be,
intending to make a good show for the spectators -
Paersson went 190 feet before landing. Yikes.

Also, did you see the skiier who got about 5 metres from the start
house, and then toppled over sideways? Not the best.

Yes. That to me is an indication of the intensity of nerves rather
than either course or physical-skill problems.

Ben

wrote:
Dumbasses,

Right. The solution to this problem is not padding,
but to not build a track with giant obstructions just
above it in the first place.

Dumbass,

No one could have ever imagined someone screwing up at
140kph and leaving the track.

Bob Schwartz

In article ,
William Asher wrote:

Ryan Cousineau wrote:

In article ,
William Asher wrote:

wrote:


The Womens downhill yesterday was borderline ridiculous. I've
watched the sport for years (know nothing about it from experience)
and I can't recall a course that seem to cause so much obvious
problems for so many of the elite of the elite competitors. To this
casual observor, I had to wonder if it was time to stop calling it
a challenging course and start calling it a failure. Half of the
final six crashing out is not supposed to be how it is IMO. Real
skiiers can feel free to say how I'm wrong on this.

I'm like you, I only watch the women's skiing because I like watching
womenn who can crack unhusked coconuts betweenn their thighs, but I
interpreted what happened to be that Vonn was so fast the womenn who
wanted to winn recognized they had to push their ownn limits. Whenn
you are running flat out mistakes happenn, like Dave Zabriskie
crashing at the end of the TTT.

Inn fact, Vonn was so fast I assume she is a doper, using the Lemond
criterionn.

Possibly true. I assumed we were seeing that the depth in women's
downhill is quite low. See also: Canada 18, Slovakia 0.

Also, did you see the skiier who got about 5 metres from the start
house, and then toppled over sideways? Not the best.

Yes. That was one of the "crashes" but it just looked like a senior
moment. On the other hand the Frenchwoman was painful to watch. She was
so close and it looked like she ran out of gas at the end because she had
to go so hard.

Oh, of course. I guess, with this being the land of dumbasses, I should
clarify that I didn't think the talent pool in women's downhill was
_that_ shallow (reminiscent of the joke on The Simpsons about the '84
Olympics, where some of the non-American swimming contestants come from
countries that don't have pools.)

Did Slovakia pull their goalie in the second period or something?

The women's Olympic hockey tournament qualifies 8 teams. You could
probably determine the medals just fine with 6 qualifiers, but the last
two spots give second-tier national teams something worth fighting for.

The second factor is that seeding and tiebreaking is done by goal
differentials. With the US and Canada wanting good seeds entering the
medal rounds, the only thing to do is for all teams to go all-out for
goals in every game, no matter how lopsided.

So Canada will get a better seeding now, because over in Group B the US
only managed to paste their three opponents 31-1, while Canada managed
to brutalize its opponents 41-2.

http://www.ctvolympics.ca/hockey/sta...r=w/index.html

Fun facts: Canada and the US were so dominant that they were the only
two teams to finish the Groups with positive goal differentials. They
are the only two teams who have ever contested the IIHF women's world
championships (run annually since 1990 except in Olympic years):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IIHF_Wo..._Championships

Finland has won 9 of 12 IIHF bronze medals, and has played every
bronze-medal game.

In the three women's Olympic hockey tourneys, Canada has two golds, US
one, and the Swedish upset of the US team at Torino (pushing the US into
the bronze game) was enormous.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."