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Road racing cyclist critically injured



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 18th 15, 09:14 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Nick[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,323
Default Road racing cyclist critically injured

On 18/08/2015 10:49, Mrcheerful wrote:
http://www.gloucestershireecho.co.uk...ail/story.html

It would be interesting if we had statistics for accidents containing
data on the make and model of car. It is my perception that drivers of
certain types of car are far more dangerous than others. I would be
interested to see if this is prejudice or a valid heuristic.
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  #2  
Old August 18th 15, 09:31 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Alycidon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,921
Default Road racing cyclist critically injured

On Tuesday, 18 August 2015 21:15:01 UTC+1, Nick wrote:

It would be interesting if we had statistics for accidents containing
data on the make and model of car. It is my perception that drivers of
certain types of car are far more dangerous than others. I would be
interested to see if this is prejudice or a valid heuristic.


Here is one set of data for IOM racing makes of vehicles.
The only trend I can see is from Europe to Japanese marques.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rse_fatalities
  #3  
Old August 18th 15, 10:03 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Nick[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,323
Default Road racing cyclist critically injured

On 18/08/2015 21:31, Alycidon wrote:
On Tuesday, 18 August 2015 21:15:01 UTC+1, Nick wrote:

It would be interesting if we had statistics for accidents containing
data on the make and model of car. It is my perception that drivers of
certain types of car are far more dangerous than others. I would be
interested to see if this is prejudice or a valid heuristic.


Here is one set of data for IOM racing makes of vehicles.
The only trend I can see is from Europe to Japanese marques.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rse_fatalities


I meant to say normal road vehicles.
  #4  
Old August 19th 15, 11:42 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
jnugent
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,574
Default Road racing cyclist critically injured

On 18/08/2015 21:14, Nick wrote:

On 18/08/2015 10:49, Mrcheerful wrote:
http://www.gloucestershireecho.co.uk...ail/story.html


It would be interesting if we had statistics for accidents containing
data on the make and model of car. It is my perception that drivers of
certain types of car are far more dangerous than others. I would be
interested to see if this is prejudice or a valid heuristic.


Earlier this year, I acquired the FOC medium-term loan of a nearly-new
prestigious marque German car and have been using it as regular
transport for local and longer-distance trips for most of that time.

What I can tell you is that other road-users react very differently to
the mere sight of the vehicle as compared with (say) my own car (which
has acquired only about 200 miles on the clock this year). The same
distinction can be observed as between the German car and the twenty or
thirty hire-cars I drive every year (hired by my employer for
work-related purposes).

Some teenage boys tend to be just smitten by the car and cast long
admiring glances in its direction. I don't blame them for that. It is
rather splendid, though I'm not a fan of the whole concept of the car as
status symbol and would never use my own money to buy a vehicle which
was dearer than the average. I could afford it, but it's way outside my
priorities in life.

However, and more importantly, some adult road-users, particularly male
drivers of cars more like my own (cheaper) car (and therefore
ostensibly, people who are otherwise more like me, as near as one can
gauge), seem more competitive and aggressive than I ever experience when
driving a less expensive model. A relatively common occurrence is a
driver on the left officiously accelerating in order to prevent me from
moving to the nearside lane after an overtaking maneouvre. Others cast
glances sideways at traffic lights and accelerate away on green and
amber. Yet others tailgate me at 29 mph in built-up areas and seem both
impatient and shocked at finding themselves within the limit.

I put much of this this latter phenomenon down to the effect of idiots
on the internet making stupid statements such as "it is my perception
that drivers of certain types of car are far more dangerous than
others", apparently without a thought in their heads to the effect that
lots of drivers drive different cars (of different makes, models, age
and value) all the time.
  #5  
Old August 19th 15, 06:44 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Nick[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,323
Default Road racing cyclist critically injured

On 19/08/2015 11:42, JNugent wrote:
On 18/08/2015 21:14, Nick wrote:

On 18/08/2015 10:49, Mrcheerful wrote:
http://www.gloucestershireecho.co.uk...ail/story.html


It would be interesting if we had statistics for accidents containing
data on the make and model of car. It is my perception that drivers of
certain types of car are far more dangerous than others. I would be
interested to see if this is prejudice or a valid heuristic.


Earlier this year, I acquired the FOC medium-term loan of a nearly-new
prestigious marque German car and have been using it as regular
transport for local and longer-distance trips for most of that time.

What I can tell you is that other road-users react very differently to
the mere sight of the vehicle as compared with (say) my own car (which
has acquired only about 200 miles on the clock this year). The same
distinction can be observed as between the German car and the twenty or
thirty hire-cars I drive every year (hired by my employer for
work-related purposes).


Yes I agree, it does seem to be German cars. When I was younger I
thought it was "flash" cars. But I find drivers of proper sports cars
tend to be above average in safety and consideration to other road
users. So I guess it isn't people who love cars per se but people who
want to be considered of high status.

Some teenage boys tend to be just smitten by the car and cast long
admiring glances in its direction. I don't blame them for that. It is
rather splendid, though I'm not a fan of the whole concept of the car as
status symbol and would never use my own money to buy a vehicle which
was dearer than the average. I could afford it, but it's way outside my
priorities in life.

However, and more importantly, some adult road-users, particularly male
drivers of cars more like my own (cheaper) car (and therefore
ostensibly, people who are otherwise more like me, as near as one can
gauge), seem more competitive and aggressive than I ever experience when
driving a less expensive model.


I see whilst you don't approve of cars as status symbols you use them as
indicators of wealth ;o)

A relatively common occurrence is a
driver on the left officiously accelerating in order to prevent me from
moving to the nearside lane after an overtaking maneouvre. Others cast
glances sideways at traffic lights and accelerate away on green and
amber. Yet others tailgate me at 29 mph in built-up areas and seem both
impatient and shocked at finding themselves within the limit.


I don't approve of this sort of dangerous behaviour. But certainly if
someone wants to drive a "status" car it does tend to indicate they want
you to take notice of them. So certainly I would be much less likely to
cede my right of way at a junction to such a car. Why not they are after
all symbols of selfishness.

I put much of this this latter phenomenon down to the effect of idiots
on the internet making stupid statements such as "it is my perception
that drivers of certain types of car are far more dangerous than
others", apparently without a thought in their heads to the effect that
lots of drivers drive different cars (of different makes, models, age
and value) all the time.


Don't forget my other theory that people who drive for work are also
amongst the most inconsiderate and dangerous drivers.
  #6  
Old August 20th 15, 12:22 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
jnugent
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,574
Default Road racing cyclist critically injured

On 19/08/2015 18:44, Nick wrote:

On 19/08/2015 11:42, JNugent wrote:
On 18/08/2015 21:14, Nick wrote:
On 18/08/2015 10:49, Mrcheerful wrote:


http://www.gloucestershireecho.co.uk...ail/story.html


It would be interesting if we had statistics for accidents containing
data on the make and model of car. It is my perception that drivers of
certain types of car are far more dangerous than others. I would be
interested to see if this is prejudice or a valid heuristic.


Earlier this year, I acquired the FOC medium-term loan of a nearly-new
prestigious marque German car and have been using it as regular
transport for local and longer-distance trips for most of that time.
What I can tell you is that other road-users react very differently to
the mere sight of the vehicle as compared with (say) my own car (which
has acquired only about 200 miles on the clock this year). The same
distinction can be observed as between the German car and the twenty or
thirty hire-cars I drive every year (hired by my employer for
work-related purposes).


Yes I agree, it does seem to be German cars. When I was younger I
thought it was "flash" cars. But I find drivers of proper sports cars
tend to be above average in safety and consideration to other road
users.


You must be ever so old if you have ever encountered significant numbers
of "proper sports cars", so your memory of "flash cars" will undoubtedly
be of British made cars (Jaguars, Daimlers, Astons, maybe the odd
Armstrong Siddeley).

So I guess it isn't people who love cars per se but people who
want to be considered of high status.


Maybe. But does *anyone* really "love" cars?

They're just there to do a job AFAIAC. Yes, you want them to be reliable
and functional, as well as not being an eyesore when parked on the
drive, but "love" them?

That's something you reserve for things whose creation and function are
true works of art.

Some teenage boys tend to be just smitten by the car and cast long
admiring glances in its direction. I don't blame them for that. It is
rather splendid, though I'm not a fan of the whole concept of the car as
status symbol and would never use my own money to buy a vehicle which
was dearer than the average. I could afford it, but it's way outside my
priorities in life.


However, and more importantly, some adult road-users, particularly male
drivers of cars more like my own (cheaper) car (and therefore
ostensibly, people who are otherwise more like me, as near as one can
gauge), seem more competitive and aggressive than I ever experience when
driving a less expensive model.


I see whilst you don't approve of cars as status symbols you use them as
indicators of wealth ;o)


They're at least as useful as most other casual indicators. Not many
people are going to be driving round in a Marina if they can afford
something newer and altogether more reliable. Of course, and as you will
appreciate, driving a car doesn't mean that you own it.

A relatively common occurrence is a
driver on the left officiously accelerating in order to prevent me from
moving to the nearside lane after an overtaking maneouvre. Others cast
glances sideways at traffic lights and accelerate away on green and
amber. Yet others tailgate me at 29 mph in built-up areas and seem both
impatient and shocked at finding themselves within the limit.


I don't approve of this sort of dangerous behaviour. But certainly if
someone wants to drive a "status" car it does tend to indicate they want
you to take notice of them. So certainly I would be much less likely to
cede my right of way at a junction to such a car.


There is no "right of way" in the nearside lane.

You need a copy of the Highway Code.

Why not they are after all symbols of selfishness.


Whereas failure to drive safely (eg, by not complying with the
requirements of the Highway Code and Road Traffic Acts and somehow
driving "politically") is something other than selfishness?

I put much of this this latter phenomenon down to the effect of idiots
on the internet making stupid statements such as "it is my perception
that drivers of certain types of car are far more dangerous than
others", apparently without a thought in their heads to the effect that
lots of drivers drive different cars (of different makes, models, age
and value) all the time.


Don't forget my other theory that people who drive for work are also
amongst the most inconsiderate and dangerous drivers.


It sounds as convincing as the "theories" you've already expounded.
  #7  
Old August 20th 15, 10:17 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Nick[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,323
Default Road racing cyclist critically injured

On 20/08/2015 00:22, JNugent wrote:
On 19/08/2015 18:44, Nick wrote:

On 19/08/2015 11:42, JNugent wrote:
On 18/08/2015 21:14, Nick wrote:
On 18/08/2015 10:49, Mrcheerful wrote:


http://www.gloucestershireecho.co.uk...ail/story.html


It would be interesting if we had statistics for accidents containing
data on the make and model of car. It is my perception that drivers of
certain types of car are far more dangerous than others. I would be
interested to see if this is prejudice or a valid heuristic.


Earlier this year, I acquired the FOC medium-term loan of a nearly-new
prestigious marque German car and have been using it as regular
transport for local and longer-distance trips for most of that time.
What I can tell you is that other road-users react very differently to
the mere sight of the vehicle as compared with (say) my own car (which
has acquired only about 200 miles on the clock this year). The same
distinction can be observed as between the German car and the twenty or
thirty hire-cars I drive every year (hired by my employer for
work-related purposes).


Yes I agree, it does seem to be German cars. When I was younger I
thought it was "flash" cars. But I find drivers of proper sports cars
tend to be above average in safety and consideration to other road
users.


You must be ever so old if you have ever encountered significant numbers
of "proper sports cars", so your memory of "flash cars" will undoubtedly
be of British made cars (Jaguars, Daimlers, Astons, maybe the odd
Armstrong Siddeley).

So I guess it isn't people who love cars per se but people who
want to be considered of high status.


Maybe. But does *anyone* really "love" cars?

They're just there to do a job AFAIAC. Yes, you want them to be reliable
and functional, as well as not being an eyesore when parked on the
drive, but "love" them?

That's something you reserve for things whose creation and function are
true works of art.

Some teenage boys tend to be just smitten by the car and cast long
admiring glances in its direction. I don't blame them for that. It is
rather splendid, though I'm not a fan of the whole concept of the car as
status symbol and would never use my own money to buy a vehicle which
was dearer than the average. I could afford it, but it's way outside my
priorities in life.


However, and more importantly, some adult road-users, particularly male
drivers of cars more like my own (cheaper) car (and therefore
ostensibly, people who are otherwise more like me, as near as one can
gauge), seem more competitive and aggressive than I ever experience when
driving a less expensive model.


I see whilst you don't approve of cars as status symbols you use them as
indicators of wealth ;o)


They're at least as useful as most other casual indicators. Not many
people are going to be driving round in a Marina if they can afford
something newer and altogether more reliable. Of course, and as you will
appreciate, driving a car doesn't mean that you own it.


Yeah right, like not many people are going to wear old jeans when they
could afford some brand new designer ones. Unlike you it appears many
people don't see a car as anything more than a utility device like a
vacuum cleaner. Maybe it is different outside London?

A relatively common occurrence is a
driver on the left officiously accelerating in order to prevent me from
moving to the nearside lane after an overtaking maneouvre. Others cast
glances sideways at traffic lights and accelerate away on green and
amber. Yet others tailgate me at 29 mph in built-up areas and seem both
impatient and shocked at finding themselves within the limit.


I don't approve of this sort of dangerous behaviour. But certainly if
someone wants to drive a "status" car it does tend to indicate they want
you to take notice of them. So certainly I would be much less likely to
cede my right of way at a junction to such a car.


There is no "right of way" in the nearside lane.


A bit like your double parking theory in yesterday's thread? I think
I'll stick to my theory that cars pulling out of side roads give way to
cars in the main carriage way.


You need a copy of the Highway Code.

Why not they are after all symbols of selfishness.


Whereas failure to drive safely (eg, by not complying with the
requirements of the Highway Code and Road Traffic Acts and somehow
driving "politically") is something other than selfishness?

I put much of this this latter phenomenon down to the effect of idiots
on the internet making stupid statements such as "it is my perception
that drivers of certain types of car are far more dangerous than
others", apparently without a thought in their heads to the effect that
lots of drivers drive different cars (of different makes, models, age
and value) all the time.


Don't forget my other theory that people who drive for work are also
amongst the most inconsiderate and dangerous drivers.


It sounds as convincing as the "theories" you've already expounded.


The point is that we agree some people who buy certain types of car do
so because they want to project an image of self importance. This
hypothesis combined with my "research" has me convinced. Obviously not
possessing your ability to just know things for sure I was interested in
checking my theories with statistical data.
  #8  
Old August 20th 15, 10:24 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Bod[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,516
Default Road racing cyclist critically injured

On 20/08/2015 10:17, Nick wrote:
On 20/08/2015 00:22, JNugent wrote:
On 19/08/2015 18:44, Nick wrote:

On 19/08/2015 11:42, JNugent wrote:
On 18/08/2015 21:14, Nick wrote:
On 18/08/2015 10:49, Mrcheerful wrote:


http://www.gloucestershireecho.co.uk...ail/story.html



It would be interesting if we had statistics for accidents containing
data on the make and model of car. It is my perception that drivers of
certain types of car are far more dangerous than others. I would be
interested to see if this is prejudice or a valid heuristic.

Earlier this year, I acquired the FOC medium-term loan of a nearly-new
prestigious marque German car and have been using it as regular
transport for local and longer-distance trips for most of that time.
What I can tell you is that other road-users react very differently to
the mere sight of the vehicle as compared with (say) my own car (which
has acquired only about 200 miles on the clock this year). The same
distinction can be observed as between the German car and the twenty or
thirty hire-cars I drive every year (hired by my employer for
work-related purposes).

Yes I agree, it does seem to be German cars. When I was younger I
thought it was "flash" cars. But I find drivers of proper sports cars
tend to be above average in safety and consideration to other road
users.


You must be ever so old if you have ever encountered significant numbers
of "proper sports cars", so your memory of "flash cars" will undoubtedly
be of British made cars (Jaguars, Daimlers, Astons, maybe the odd
Armstrong Siddeley).

So I guess it isn't people who love cars per se but people who
want to be considered of high status.


Maybe. But does *anyone* really "love" cars?

They're just there to do a job AFAIAC. Yes, you want them to be reliable
and functional, as well as not being an eyesore when parked on the
drive, but "love" them?

That's something you reserve for things whose creation and function are
true works of art.

Some teenage boys tend to be just smitten by the car and cast long
admiring glances in its direction. I don't blame them for that. It is
rather splendid, though I'm not a fan of the whole concept of the
car as
status symbol and would never use my own money to buy a vehicle which
was dearer than the average. I could afford it, but it's way outside my
priorities in life.

However, and more importantly, some adult road-users, particularly male
drivers of cars more like my own (cheaper) car (and therefore
ostensibly, people who are otherwise more like me, as near as one can
gauge), seem more competitive and aggressive than I ever experience
when
driving a less expensive model.

I see whilst you don't approve of cars as status symbols you use them as
indicators of wealth ;o)


They're at least as useful as most other casual indicators. Not many
people are going to be driving round in a Marina if they can afford
something newer and altogether more reliable. Of course, and as you will
appreciate, driving a car doesn't mean that you own it.


Yeah right, like not many people are going to wear old jeans when they
could afford some brand new designer ones. Unlike you it appears many
people don't see a car as anything more than a utility device like a
vacuum cleaner. Maybe it is different outside London?

A relatively common occurrence is a
driver on the left officiously accelerating in order to prevent me from
moving to the nearside lane after an overtaking maneouvre. Others cast
glances sideways at traffic lights and accelerate away on green and
amber. Yet others tailgate me at 29 mph in built-up areas and seem both
impatient and shocked at finding themselves within the limit.

I don't approve of this sort of dangerous behaviour. But certainly if
someone wants to drive a "status" car it does tend to indicate they want
you to take notice of them. So certainly I would be much less likely to
cede my right of way at a junction to such a car.


There is no "right of way" in the nearside lane.


A bit like your double parking theory in yesterday's thread? I think
I'll stick to my theory that cars pulling out of side roads give way to
cars in the main carriage way.


You need a copy of the Highway Code.

Why not they are after all symbols of selfishness.


Whereas failure to drive safely (eg, by not complying with the
requirements of the Highway Code and Road Traffic Acts and somehow
driving "politically") is something other than selfishness?

I put much of this this latter phenomenon down to the effect of idiots
on the internet making stupid statements such as "it is my perception
that drivers of certain types of car are far more dangerous than
others", apparently without a thought in their heads to the effect that
lots of drivers drive different cars (of different makes, models, age
and value) all the time.

Don't forget my other theory that people who drive for work are also
amongst the most inconsiderate and dangerous drivers.


It sounds as convincing as the "theories" you've already expounded.


The point is that we agree some people who buy certain types of car do
so because they want to project an image of self importance. This
hypothesis combined with my "research" has me convinced. Obviously not
possessing your ability to just know things for sure I was interested in
checking my theories with statistical data.

Well Volvo owners have been sterotyped as really slow drivers for years.
Whether that is generally true now or not I don't know.
  #9  
Old August 20th 15, 05:07 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
jnugent
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,574
Default Road racing cyclist critically injured

On 20/08/2015 10:17, Nick wrote:

On 20/08/2015 00:22, JNugent wrote:
On 19/08/2015 18:44, Nick wrote:
On 19/08/2015 11:42, JNugent wrote:
On 18/08/2015 21:14, Nick wrote:
On 18/08/2015 10:49, Mrcheerful wrote:


http://www.gloucestershireecho.co.uk...ail/story.html


It would be interesting if we had statistics for accidents containing
data on the make and model of car. It is my perception that drivers of
certain types of car are far more dangerous than others. I would be
interested to see if this is prejudice or a valid heuristic.


Earlier this year, I acquired the FOC medium-term loan of a nearly-new
prestigious marque German car and have been using it as regular
transport for local and longer-distance trips for most of that time.
What I can tell you is that other road-users react very differently to
the mere sight of the vehicle as compared with (say) my own car (which
has acquired only about 200 miles on the clock this year). The same
distinction can be observed as between the German car and the twenty or
thirty hire-cars I drive every year (hired by my employer for
work-related purposes).


Yes I agree, it does seem to be German cars. When I was younger I
thought it was "flash" cars. But I find drivers of proper sports cars
tend to be above average in safety and consideration to other road
users.


You must be ever so old if you have ever encountered significant numbers
of "proper sports cars", so your memory of "flash cars" will undoubtedly
be of British made cars (Jaguars, Daimlers, Astons, maybe the odd
Armstrong Siddeley).


So I guess it isn't people who love cars per se but people who
want to be considered of high status.


Maybe. But does *anyone* really "love" cars?
They're just there to do a job AFAIAC. Yes, you want them to be reliable
and functional, as well as not being an eyesore when parked on the
drive, but "love" them?
That's something you reserve for things whose creation and function are
true works of art.


Some teenage boys tend to be just smitten by the car and cast long
admiring glances in its direction. I don't blame them for that. It is
rather splendid, though I'm not a fan of the whole concept of the
car as status symbol and would never use my own money to buy a vehicle
whichj was dearer than the average. I could afford it, but it's way
outside my priorities in life.
However, and more importantly, some adult road-users, particularly male
drivers of cars more like my own (cheaper) car (and therefore
ostensibly, people who are otherwise more like me, as near as one can
gauge), seem more competitive and aggressive than I ever experience
when driving a less expensive model.


I see whilst you don't approve of cars as status symbols you use them as
indicators of wealth ;o)


They're at least as useful as most other casual indicators. Not many
people are going to be driving round in a Marina if they can afford
something newer and altogether more reliable. Of course, and as you will
appreciate, driving a car doesn't mean that you own it.


Yeah right, like not many people are going to wear old jeans when they
could afford some brand new designer ones.


Jeans and cars. What's the connection? Other than the one in your
imagination, I mean.

Unlike you it appears many
people don't see a car as anything more than a utility device like a
vacuum cleaner.


I explained to you that *I* don't see a car as a status symbol (and
would certainly never buy an expensive car for that purpose).

Which bit of that did you fail to understand? Perhaps you failed to
understand all of it. That's about the only thing that would explain
your weird observation above.

Maybe it is different outside London?


Maybe what is?

A relatively common occurrence is a
driver on the left officiously accelerating in order to prevent me from
moving to the nearside lane after an overtaking maneouvre. Others cast
glances sideways at traffic lights and accelerate away on green and
amber. Yet others tailgate me at 29 mph in built-up areas and seem both
impatient and shocked at finding themselves within the limit.


I don't approve of this sort of dangerous behaviour. But certainly if
someone wants to drive a "status" car it does tend to indicate they want
you to take notice of them. So certainly I would be much less likely to
cede my right of way at a junction to such a car.


There is no "right of way" in the nearside lane.


A bit like your double parking theory in yesterday's thread? I think
I'll stick to my theory that cars pulling out of side roads give way to
cars in the main carriage way.


Fair enough, and I fully agree, but what does it have to do with
overtaking on a dual carriageway?

You need a copy of the Highway Code.


Why not they are after all symbols of selfishness.


Whereas failure to drive safely (eg, by not complying with the
requirements of the Highway Code and Road Traffic Acts and somehow
driving "politically") is something other than selfishness?


I put much of this this latter phenomenon down to the effect of idiots
on the internet making stupid statements such as "it is my perception
that drivers of certain types of car are far more dangerous than
others", apparently without a thought in their heads to the effect that
lots of drivers drive different cars (of different makes, models, age
and value) all the time.


Don't forget my other theory that people who drive for work are also
amongst the most inconsiderate and dangerous drivers.


It sounds as convincing as the "theories" you've already expounded.


The point is that we agree some people who buy certain types of car do
so because they want to project an image of self importance. This
hypothesis combined with my "research" has me convinced. Obviously not
possessing your ability to just know things for sure I was interested in
checking my theories with statistical data.


I neither know (for certain) nor care why people buy this or that car.
It's their business, not mine. You, on the other hand, clearly don't
know either, but for your own reasons, you care *passionately* about
other peoples' business. It's... odd.
 




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