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  #11  
Old June 2nd 19, 02:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 4,294
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On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 8:45:31 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
Andy wrote:
I see young kids riding. Teens too. Plenty of bikes at schools as
well.The percentage is lower than when I was growing up.


Same here. But when I was growing up there were not so many soccer moms.
The typical scenario was a 1 car family with the husband taking the car to
work and the wife taking care of the house and kids. It was certainly
like that for my family and most of our friends. So you had the choice to
walk or ride a bike.

I’m not saying the old days were better. They were not. Just different.
Now it takes more incentive to get kids on bikes. Once they put in some
bike paths from our neighbourhood to the elementary school the kids stated
riding to school. They still do. I past some of the path on my ride to
work. I don’t take it, partially because it’s crowded with kids.
“Advocates” can complain that it instills a sense of danger around cycling
but the fact is that most parents aren’t sending their 8 year olds into
traffic.

--
duane


Especially into traffic with distracted or texting drivers. Traffic is much heavier now than when we were kids.

When we were kids how did we learn to ride in traffic?

I'm not totally against bicycle paths but I am against ones that are poorly designed, ie door zone lanes, or ones that suddenly dump bicyclists into traffic.

I remember one bike lane they installed on Bay Street in Toronto Canada. You could stand on the corner of Bay and Queen Streets and look south towards Front Street and see nary a bicyclist in the bike lane. IIRC, they eventually moved that lane to Jarvis Street another north-south main street and in turn moved it to Sherbourne Street yet another north-south street because there was so little bicycle use on it. From Bay Street to Sherbourne Street is a fair distance.

Cheers
Ads
  #12  
Old June 2nd 19, 02:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AK[_2_]
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Posts: 80
Default Bicycle statistics

On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 7:45:31 AM UTC-5, Duane wrote:
Andy wrote:
I see young kids riding. Teens too. Plenty of bikes at schools as
well.The percentage is lower than when I was growing up.


Same here. But when I was growing up there were not so many soccer moms.
The typical scenario was a 1 car family with the husband taking the car to
work and the wife taking care of the house and kids. It was certainly
like that for my family and most of our friends. So you had the choice to
walk or ride a bike.

I’m not saying the old days were better. They were not. Just different.
Now it takes more incentive to get kids on bikes. Once they put in some
bike paths from our neighbourhood to the elementary school the kids stated
riding to school. They still do. I past some of the path on my ride to
work. I don’t take it, partially because it’s crowded with kids.
“Advocates” can complain that it instills a sense of danger around cycling
but the fact is that most parents aren’t sending their 8 year olds into
traffic.

--
duane


You are right. And we did not have video games and cell phones.

We made our own fun.

Andy
  #13  
Old June 2nd 19, 03:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 10,433
Default Bicycle statistics

On 6/1/2019 7:01 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/1/2019 4:46 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 9:42:59 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
On 6/1/2019 3:02 AM,
wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 2:22:45 AM UTC+2,
wrote:
On Friday, May 31, 2019 at 2:48:36 PM UTC-5, AK wrote:

Average age of a bicyclist killed on US roads:
45 (36 in 2002)


Disregarding the "killed" part, this brings up a
question about the demographics of bicycling today.
Are all bicyclists getting older? Is bicycling
becoming an older person activity? Are youngsters not
taking up cycling? I have friends with children in the
late teens and 20s age groups. Some of the kids do
ride bikes. But others, their kids do not ride. Yet
they ride lots and lots. I know on this forum some
people say their children or one child does ride. But
how many on this forum have children who do not ride
ever? Yet they do.

All kids in the Netherlands ride a bicycle at least up
to 18 years when they allowed to drive a car. Most of
the times they can't affort a car at that age so the
ride until they earn some money. After that they only
ride recreational or when it is more practical/faster.

"Back in my day" we didn't get driven around everywhere,
it was just
unthinkable that we would even ask to be driven somewhere
fairly close
to our homes. We rode our bikes. Maybe if it was pouring
rain our
parents would drive us. The times I was driven to
elementary school,
about four blocks away were rare.

In the city I'm in now, it's extremely rare for an
elementary school
student to ride a bike to school. It's still fairly
common in middle
school and high school, but not at the level it should
be. Traffic
around schools is insane─even though most students
could walk or ride a
bike, they are driven, and sometimes it's only one block.



I'm not really talking about "kids" riding bikes during
elementary, middle, or high school. I mean young adults.
Or "kids" as I think of them, unfortunately. Younger
people. Is bicycling, recreational, fun bicycling,
becoming an older and older person activity? Are fewer
and fewer young people doing the activity? Thus making
the average age of the cyclist older and older.


I think that's the case, sadly. I think a huge chunk of
American's dedicated cyclists are still the ones that took
it up during the early 1970s "bike boom" when it was trendy.
(Fashion is powerful.) Those people are now in their 60s,
perhaps 70s.

It's not 100%, of course. We have a new young couple living
next door and they've got some very nice road bikes. OTOH,
they have a new little kid, so they won't be doing a lot of
riding for a while.



So bicycles are basically skateboards for old people?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #14  
Old June 2nd 19, 04:39 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,498
Default Bicycle statistics

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 8:45:31 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
Andy wrote:
I see young kids riding. Teens too. Plenty of bikes at schools as
well.The percentage is lower than when I was growing up.


Same here. But when I was growing up there were not so many soccer moms.
The typical scenario was a 1 car family with the husband taking the car to
work and the wife taking care of the house and kids. It was certainly
like that for my family and most of our friends. So you had the choice to
walk or ride a bike.

I’m not saying the old days were better. They were not. Just different.
Now it takes more incentive to get kids on bikes. Once they put in some
bike paths from our neighbourhood to the elementary school the kids stated
riding to school. They still do. I past some of the path on my ride to
work. I don’t take it, partially because it’s crowded with kids.
“Advocates” can complain that it instills a sense of danger around cycling
but the fact is that most parents aren’t sending their 8 year olds into
traffic.

--
duane


Especially into traffic with distracted or texting drivers. Traffic is
much heavier now than when we were kids.

When we were kids how did we learn to ride in traffic?


Trial and error. But there was less traffic and no texting drivers then.

I'm not totally against bicycle paths but I am against ones that are
poorly designed, ie door zone lanes, or ones that suddenly dump bicyclists into traffic.


I’m not really for or against bike paths. I was just commenting on the
post.

I remember one bike lane they installed on Bay Street in Toronto Canada.
You could stand on the corner of Bay and Queen Streets and look south
towards Front Street and see nary a bicyclist in the bike lane. IIRC,
they eventually moved that lane to Jarvis Street another north-south main
street and in turn moved it to Sherbourne Street yet another north-south
street because there was so little bicycle use on it. From Bay Street to
Sherbourne Street is a fair distance.

Cheers

I use bike lanes a lot. Passing the stopped traffic is nice and I have to
be on the right anyway. There is not a 20k/h speed limit as there is on
paths. The idea that the white paint makes me feel overly safe is
ridiculous. You have to be alert around traffic with or without the paint.


But some lanes are better than others. The ones in door zones are dumb so
I don’t use them. There’s a section on my commute that was low traffic
with wide lanes. Not much parking. They put in a bike lane next to the
parking slots. I don’t use them but now I get grief from drivers telling
me to get out of their way. Then there are the ones that dump you into
oncoming traffic.


--
duane
  #15  
Old June 2nd 19, 05:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,294
Default Bicycle statistics

On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 11:39:46 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 8:45:31 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
Andy wrote:
I see young kids riding. Teens too. Plenty of bikes at schools as
well.The percentage is lower than when I was growing up.


Same here. But when I was growing up there were not so many soccer moms.
The typical scenario was a 1 car family with the husband taking the car to
work and the wife taking care of the house and kids. It was certainly
like that for my family and most of our friends. So you had the choice to
walk or ride a bike.

I’m not saying the old days were better. They were not. Just different.
Now it takes more incentive to get kids on bikes. Once they put in some
bike paths from our neighbourhood to the elementary school the kids stated
riding to school. They still do. I past some of the path on my ride to
work. I don’t take it, partially because it’s crowded with kids.
“Advocates” can complain that it instills a sense of danger around cycling
but the fact is that most parents aren’t sending their 8 year olds into
traffic.

--
duane


Especially into traffic with distracted or texting drivers. Traffic is
much heavier now than when we were kids.

When we were kids how did we learn to ride in traffic?


Trial and error. But there was less traffic and no texting drivers then.

I'm not totally against bicycle paths but I am against ones that are
poorly designed, ie door zone lanes, or ones that suddenly dump bicyclists into traffic.


I’m not really for or against bike paths. I was just commenting on the
post.

I remember one bike lane they installed on Bay Street in Toronto Canada..
You could stand on the corner of Bay and Queen Streets and look south
towards Front Street and see nary a bicyclist in the bike lane. IIRC,
they eventually moved that lane to Jarvis Street another north-south main
street and in turn moved it to Sherbourne Street yet another north-south
street because there was so little bicycle use on it. From Bay Street to
Sherbourne Street is a fair distance.

Cheers

I use bike lanes a lot. Passing the stopped traffic is nice and I have to
be on the right anyway. There is not a 20k/h speed limit as there is on
paths. The idea that the white paint makes me feel overly safe is
ridiculous. You have to be alert around traffic with or without the paint.

  #16  
Old June 2nd 19, 05:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,337
Default Bicycle statistics

On 6/2/2019 10:30 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/1/2019 7:01 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/1/2019 4:46 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 9:42:59 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
On 6/1/2019 3:02 AM,
wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 2:22:45 AM UTC+2,
wrote:
On Friday, May 31, 2019 at 2:48:36 PM UTC-5, AK wrote:

***** Average age of a bicyclist killed on US roads:
45 (36 in 2002)


Disregarding the "killed" part, this brings up a
question about the demographics of bicycling today.
Are all bicyclists getting older?* Is bicycling
becoming an older person activity?* Are youngsters not
taking up cycling?* I have friends with children in the
late teens and 20s age groups.* Some of the kids do
ride bikes.* But others, their kids do not ride.* Yet
they ride lots and lots.* I know on this forum some
people say their children or one child does ride.* But
how many on this forum have children who do not ride
ever?* Yet they do.

All kids in the Netherlands ride a bicycle at least up
to 18 years when they allowed to drive a car. Most of
the times they can't affort a car at that age so the
ride until they earn some money. After that they only
ride recreational or when it is more practical/faster.

"Back in my day" we didn't get driven around everywhere,
it was just
unthinkable that we would even ask to be driven somewhere
fairly close
to our homes. We rode our bikes. Maybe if it was pouring
rain our
parents would drive us. The times I was driven to
elementary school,
about four blocks away were rare.

In the city I'm in now, it's extremely rare for an
elementary school
student to ride a bike to school. It's still fairly
common in middle
school and high school, but not at the level it should
be. Traffic
around schools is insane─even though most students
could walk or ride a
bike, they are driven, and sometimes it's only one block.


I'm not really talking about "kids" riding bikes during
elementary, middle, or high school.* I mean young adults.
Or "kids" as I think of them, unfortunately.* Younger
people.* Is bicycling, recreational, fun bicycling,
becoming an older and older person activity?* Are fewer
and fewer young people doing the activity?* Thus making
the average age of the cyclist older and older.


I think that's the case, sadly. I think a huge chunk of
American's dedicated cyclists are still the ones that took
it up during the early 1970s "bike boom" when it was trendy.
(Fashion is powerful.) Those people are now in their 60s,
perhaps 70s.

It's not 100%, of course. We have a new young couple living
next door and they've got some very nice road bikes. OTOH,
they have a new little kid, so they won't be doing a lot of
riding for a while.



So bicycles are basically skateboards for old people?


Maybe.

What do you see in your shop? Is business up or down, long term? What
are the customer demographics?

As I recall, when I was in my 20s and 30s and hanging around bike shops,
there were no 60+ customers buying nice bikes. In fact, when one good
friend about 40 years old (a marathoner) bought a really nice bike, we
thought he was really something.

I don't hang around the shops as much now, but it seems the customer age
has drifted much older.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #17  
Old June 2nd 19, 06:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,337
Default Bicycle statistics

On 6/1/2019 10:16 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 8:01:10 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/1/2019 4:46 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 9:42:59 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
On 6/1/2019 3:02 AM,
wrote:
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 2:22:45 AM UTC+2, wrote:
On Friday, May 31, 2019 at 2:48:36 PM UTC-5, AK wrote:

Average age of a bicyclist killed on US roads: 45 (36 in 2002)


Disregarding the "killed" part, this brings up a question about the demographics of bicycling today. Are all bicyclists getting older? Is bicycling becoming an older person activity? Are youngsters not taking up cycling? I have friends with children in the late teens and 20s age groups. Some of the kids do ride bikes. But others, their kids do not ride. Yet they ride lots and lots. I know on this forum some people say their children or one child does ride. But how many on this forum have children who do not ride ever? Yet they do.

All kids in the Netherlands ride a bicycle at least up to 18 years when they allowed to drive a car. Most of the times they can't affort a car at that age so the ride until they earn some money. After that they only ride recreational or when it is more practical/faster.

"Back in my day" we didn't get driven around everywhere, it was just
unthinkable that we would even ask to be driven somewhere fairly close
to our homes. We rode our bikes. Maybe if it was pouring rain our
parents would drive us. The times I was driven to elementary school,
about four blocks away were rare.

In the city I'm in now, it's extremely rare for an elementary school
student to ride a bike to school. It's still fairly common in middle
school and high school, but not at the level it should be. Traffic
around schools is insane─even though most students could walk or ride a
bike, they are driven, and sometimes it's only one block.


I'm not really talking about "kids" riding bikes during elementary, middle, or high school. I mean young adults. Or "kids" as I think of them, unfortunately. Younger people. Is bicycling, recreational, fun bicycling, becoming an older and older person activity? Are fewer and fewer young people doing the activity? Thus making the average age of the cyclist older and older.


I think that's the case, sadly. I think a huge chunk of American's
dedicated cyclists are still the ones that took it up during the early
1970s "bike boom" when it was trendy. (Fashion is powerful.) Those
people are now in their 60s, perhaps 70s.

It's not 100%, of course. We have a new young couple living next door
and they've got some very nice road bikes. OTOH, they have a new little
kid, so they won't be doing a lot of riding for a while.


--
- Frank Krygowski


I've heard it said that perception equals reality. Many people where I live think that bicycling is far too dangerous for them to try. Why that is is beyond me since those people don't read magazines or newsgroups. They perceive that bicycling is dangerous and thus do not engage in it nor do they let their children engage in it. Also, I've read that many schools do NOT allow children to bicycle to school.


As I recall, there was very, very little fear mongering about bicycling
until about 1975. Our parents told us "Watch out for cars" and "Be
careful," but that was about it. Bike magazines praised fine bikes,
country rides, sport riding, long tours and even utility riding. There
was not talk of injuries that I recall.

I still remember reading _Bicycling_ magazine's first article about
helmets. It started with an anecdote (of course!) about a guy riding
with friends falling off his bike - he may have hit a squirrel - and
described how he asked the same question repeatedly. Yes, he must have
had a concussion; but until that point, the magazine never mentioned
traumatic brain injuries as part of bicycling. Of course, at that point,
Bell Sports had just begun buying advertising for its styrofoam caps.
Pricey double page ads!

I think that was the beginning of serious fear mongering. Through many
ads, articles, and sketchy research papers, people were convinced that
this everyday activity was so dangerous that a helmet was necessary.
Then, because it was so dangerous, there began calls for bike lane
stripes for "safety." And now we're deep into "safety inflation," where
giving the advocates what they asked for last year is in no way sufficient.

And people like Scharf are happy to contribute, adding to the
implication that riding a bike is very, very dangerous! Unless, that is,
it's done in a barrier "protected" or parking "protected" lane. Oh, and
don't forget, with every intersection re-built (at maybe half a million
dollars per intersection) into a "protected" intersection.

But that's not all. The funny headgear is still absolutely necessary.
And now, a super-bright daytime headlight and taillight. And you can't
be safe if you're not wearing garish clothing.

It's easy to see why people think riding is super-risky.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #18  
Old June 2nd 19, 06:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 81
Default Bicycle statistics

Just go on the sidewalk for a while.
  #19  
Old June 2nd 19, 07:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,433
Default Bicycle statistics

On 6/2/2019 12:54 PM, Andy wrote:
Just go on the sidewalk for a while.


Depending on zoning and local ordinances, illegal.
And, more often than not, reasonably so.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #20  
Old June 2nd 19, 09:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,337
Default Bicycle statistics

On 6/2/2019 1:54 PM, Andy wrote:
Just go on the sidewalk for a while.


Riding on sidewalks can be OK occasionally. Unless there are
pedestrians, of course. Then you should not.

And unless there are signs, telephone poles or other close obstructions.
Don't let your handlebar clip those.

And don't let your tires come close to the side edge of the sidewalk.
Many of them feature sharp dropoffs. If you slip off, you're likely to
crash because the edge prevents you from maintaining balance.

Also watch for bumps caused by tree roots, cracks or heaves in the
pavement. It's common for concrete sidewalks to have sections that lift
up exposing sharp edges that can cause pinch flats or worse.

And watch for bumps or curbs at intersections. These days, many
sidewalks have ADA approved ramps, but many don't. Even if the ramps are
present, there can be edges from things like gutter pans.

Above all, be _extremely_ careful entering an intersection. Motorists
are not looking for someone entering the street from a sidewalk,
especially at any speed above 3 mph. Look _all_ directions for cars.
Stop and wait, or at least yield, if they're approaching.

And the same goes for driveways. You even need to watch over your
shoulder for turning motorists. They will cut across the sidewalk to
enter the driveway without noticing you. Also, motorists exiting will
probably not stop before crossing the sidewalk as they hurry to reach
the edge of the street.

Those latter two problems are much worse if you're traveling "wrong way"
on the sidewalk. Motorists expect all traffic to flow in the same
direction. If you're headed the opposite direction, they won't look and
won't notice you.

Other than that, sure, sidewalks are fine. Assuming you're not going
much faster than a pedestrian.

I'm not saying never use a sidewalk. There are about 100 feet of
sidewalk near me I ride pretty frequently because they eliminate lots of
delay and complication with a five lane highway.

But you'd better be knowledgeable and careful. Really careful.

--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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