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  #1  
Old August 2nd 19, 01:29 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 824
Default Off Topic

I know this is off topic but I don't find the answer anywhere else.

Today's news has Pres. Trump accusing the Chinese of continuing to
sell fentanyl to the United States -- "and many Americans continue to
die!"

But my research shows that fentanyl is a medical drug for the
alleviation of severe pain and as such I would assume to be a
controlled substance. How than, "many Americans continue to die!" ?
--
cheers,

John B.

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  #2  
Old August 2nd 19, 02:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 4,183
Default Off Topic

On Thursday, August 1, 2019 at 5:29:18 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
I know this is off topic but I don't find the answer anywhere else.

Today's news has Pres. Trump accusing the Chinese of continuing to
sell fentanyl to the United States -- "and many Americans continue to
die!"

But my research shows that fentanyl is a medical drug for the
alleviation of severe pain and as such I would assume to be a
controlled substance. How than, "many Americans continue to die!" ?


See https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/01/w...nyl-trump.html Fentanyl and all its variants are now controlled substances in China which, of course, does not stop illegal trade.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #3  
Old August 2nd 19, 02:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,707
Default Off Topic

On 8/1/2019 7:29 PM, John B. wrote:
I know this is off topic but I don't find the answer anywhere else.

Today's news has Pres. Trump accusing the Chinese of continuing to
sell fentanyl to the United States -- "and many Americans continue to
die!"

But my research shows that fentanyl is a medical drug for the
alleviation of severe pain and as such I would assume to be a
controlled substance. How than, "many Americans continue to die!" ?
--
cheers,

John B.


Like the situation the past few years in Philippines[1],
where legal pharmaceutical stimulants were suddenly and
voluminously exceeded by imported methamphetamine from the
Norks, Red China and a new domestic industry, the bulk of
USA street Fentanyl is not rerouted anaesthetic
pharmaceuticals but rather imports from China and China
routed through Mexico.

This is not news:
https://www.news-herald.com/news/ohi...57599081b.html

Since the transfer cost of contraband is relatively fixed by
mass, imports tend to extremely powerful versions and
analogs, notably veterinary Carfentanyl

http://www.ottawapublichealth.ca/en/...rfentanil.aspx

[1] As with Mr Trump, Mr Duterte has reacted to a real
problem, You may disagree with either man's policy or style
or rhetoric, but the problems are indeed real. Facts are
stubborn things...

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #4  
Old August 2nd 19, 02:36 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,707
Default Off Topic

On 8/1/2019 8:03 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, August 1, 2019 at 5:29:18 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
I know this is off topic but I don't find the answer anywhere else.

Today's news has Pres. Trump accusing the Chinese of continuing to
sell fentanyl to the United States -- "and many Americans continue to
die!"

But my research shows that fentanyl is a medical drug for the
alleviation of severe pain and as such I would assume to be a
controlled substance. How than, "many Americans continue to die!" ?


See https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/01/w...nyl-trump.html Fentanyl and all its variants are now controlled substances in China which, of course, does not stop illegal trade.

-- Jay Beattie.


Oh, is that like China's compliance with pollution treaties?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/02/w...ghting-it.html

China will always talk a great game and sign anything, then
ignore any inconvenient agreements.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-against-china

China theorists posit that Hitler annexed Poland and nobody
gave a damn. Italy slashed and burned through Ethiopia and
the League of Nations wrote resolutions, but zip for action.
Therefore... and here we are.

Did you notice that after huge Chinese payments to Turkey,
Pakistan, the Saudi family and other moslem states, that
only the US of A has said _anything_ about 1,000,000+ moslem
Uighers in concentration camps in East Turkistan (Western
China)?

They are not stupid. They know that they can generally get
away with anything, but 'generally' being not always. Which
is why the huge Chinese anti-Trump media push leading up to
2020.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #5  
Old August 2nd 19, 03:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 824
Default Off Topic

On Thu, 1 Aug 2019 18:03:14 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Thursday, August 1, 2019 at 5:29:18 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
I know this is off topic but I don't find the answer anywhere else.

Today's news has Pres. Trump accusing the Chinese of continuing to
sell fentanyl to the United States -- "and many Americans continue to
die!"

But my research shows that fentanyl is a medical drug for the
alleviation of severe pain and as such I would assume to be a
controlled substance. How than, "many Americans continue to die!" ?


See https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/01/w...nyl-trump.html Fentanyl and all its variants are now controlled substances in China which, of course, does not stop illegal trade.

-- Jay Beattie.


Interesting. I did some more reading and it appears that fentanyl is
not even a controlled substance in much of Europe, but it is in the
U.S. and the largest source of illegal (in the U.S.) fentanyl is by
mail order from Chinese Web Sites.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #6  
Old August 2nd 19, 04:22 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 824
Default Off Topic

On Thu, 01 Aug 2019 20:23:09 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 8/1/2019 7:29 PM, John B. wrote:
I know this is off topic but I don't find the answer anywhere else.

Today's news has Pres. Trump accusing the Chinese of continuing to
sell fentanyl to the United States -- "and many Americans continue to
die!"

But my research shows that fentanyl is a medical drug for the
alleviation of severe pain and as such I would assume to be a
controlled substance. How than, "many Americans continue to die!" ?
--
cheers,

John B.


Like the situation the past few years in Philippines[1],
where legal pharmaceutical stimulants were suddenly and
voluminously exceeded by imported methamphetamine from the
Norks, Red China and a new domestic industry, the bulk of
USA street Fentanyl is not rerouted anaesthetic
pharmaceuticals but rather imports from China and China
routed through Mexico.

This is not news:
https://www.news-herald.com/news/ohi...57599081b.html

Since the transfer cost of contraband is relatively fixed by
mass, imports tend to extremely powerful versions and
analogs, notably veterinary Carfentanyl

http://www.ottawapublichealth.ca/en/...rfentanil.aspx

[1] As with Mr Trump, Mr Duterte has reacted to a real
problem, You may disagree with either man's policy or style
or rhetoric, but the problems are indeed real. Facts are
stubborn things...


Frankly while the "solution" may seem to be to get the host country to
ban the substance, whatever it may be, in reality that doesn't work.
In the recent past Opium was legally sold in Laos. You could go to the
market and buy it.

Than the U.S. beat the Laotians over the head and got them to outlaw
opium and its depravities and while it was no longer sold in the
market the production of opium and its depravities actually grew and
today it is estimated that Laos and Myanmar (not the major grower of
poppies) produced 893 metric tons of opium, in 2013, a 22 percent
growth from the previous year.

How can this be? Well Europe and the U.S. will buy, albeit illicitly,
just about all the opium products that a small country can produce and
not surprisingly to any student of economics where a market exists a
source will be found to supply it.

The current largest producer of poppies in the world is Afghanistan
with some 225,000 hectares ( 555,987 acres)in production.

What is the solution? Simple, penalize the users. If the demand is
reduced then the supply will also be reduced.

Is it politically possible in a country like the U.S.? Probably not.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #7  
Old August 2nd 19, 04:44 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 824
Default Off Topic

On Thu, 01 Aug 2019 20:36:04 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 8/1/2019 8:03 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, August 1, 2019 at 5:29:18 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
I know this is off topic but I don't find the answer anywhere else.

Today's news has Pres. Trump accusing the Chinese of continuing to
sell fentanyl to the United States -- "and many Americans continue to
die!"

But my research shows that fentanyl is a medical drug for the
alleviation of severe pain and as such I would assume to be a
controlled substance. How than, "many Americans continue to die!" ?


See https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/01/w...nyl-trump.html Fentanyl and all its variants are now controlled substances in China which, of course, does not stop illegal trade.

-- Jay Beattie.


Oh, is that like China's compliance with pollution treaties?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/02/w...ghting-it.html

China will always talk a great game and sign anything, then
ignore any inconvenient agreements.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-against-china

China theorists posit that Hitler annexed Poland and nobody
gave a damn. Italy slashed and burned through Ethiopia and
the League of Nations wrote resolutions, but zip for action.
Therefore... and here we are.


Yup. And a nationalistic movement (that happened to be communistic)
spent years fighting to free their country from foreign domination and
everyone said that they were bad guys.

As an aside the idea of democracy was abhorrent and literally
terrifying to most European governments in 1776 :-)

Did you notice that after huge Chinese payments to Turkey,
Pakistan, the Saudi family and other moslem states, that
only the US of A has said _anything_ about 1,000,000+ moslem
Uighers in concentration camps in East Turkistan (Western
China)?


And hasn't the U.S. been shoveling money out all around the world
since WW II? Why shouldn't China do the same?

As for treatment of minority religious members take at look at Saudi
:-) On a purely rational basis the Saudis can hardly complain about
the treatment of anybody by any other nation.


They are not stupid. They know that they can generally get
away with anything, but 'generally' being not always. Which
is why the huge Chinese anti-Trump media push leading up to
2020.

--
cheers,

John B.

  #8  
Old August 2nd 19, 05:31 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,183
Default Off Topic

On Thursday, August 1, 2019 at 6:36:07 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/1/2019 8:03 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, August 1, 2019 at 5:29:18 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
I know this is off topic but I don't find the answer anywhere else.

Today's news has Pres. Trump accusing the Chinese of continuing to
sell fentanyl to the United States -- "and many Americans continue to
die!"

But my research shows that fentanyl is a medical drug for the
alleviation of severe pain and as such I would assume to be a
controlled substance. How than, "many Americans continue to die!" ?


See https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/01/w...nyl-trump.html Fentanyl and all its variants are now controlled substances in China which, of course, does not stop illegal trade.

-- Jay Beattie.


Oh, is that like China's compliance with pollution treaties?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/02/w...ghting-it.html

China will always talk a great game and sign anything, then
ignore any inconvenient agreements.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-against-china

China theorists posit that Hitler annexed Poland and nobody
gave a damn. Italy slashed and burned through Ethiopia and
the League of Nations wrote resolutions, but zip for action.
Therefore... and here we are.

Did you notice that after huge Chinese payments to Turkey,
Pakistan, the Saudi family and other moslem states, that
only the US of A has said _anything_ about 1,000,000+ moslem
Uighers in concentration camps in East Turkistan (Western
China)?

They are not stupid. They know that they can generally get
away with anything, but 'generally' being not always. Which
is why the huge Chinese anti-Trump media push leading up to
2020.



Criminals operating in other nations will satisfy demand in the US. Maybe we should punish China for its lax oversight by inundating them with opium. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars

-- Jay Beattie
  #9  
Old August 2nd 19, 06:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 824
Default Off Topic

On Thu, 1 Aug 2019 21:31:11 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Thursday, August 1, 2019 at 6:36:07 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/1/2019 8:03 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, August 1, 2019 at 5:29:18 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
I know this is off topic but I don't find the answer anywhere else.

Today's news has Pres. Trump accusing the Chinese of continuing to
sell fentanyl to the United States -- "and many Americans continue to
die!"

But my research shows that fentanyl is a medical drug for the
alleviation of severe pain and as such I would assume to be a
controlled substance. How than, "many Americans continue to die!" ?

See https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/01/w...nyl-trump.html Fentanyl and all its variants are now controlled substances in China which, of course, does not stop illegal trade.

-- Jay Beattie.


Oh, is that like China's compliance with pollution treaties?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/02/w...ghting-it.html

China will always talk a great game and sign anything, then
ignore any inconvenient agreements.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-against-china

China theorists posit that Hitler annexed Poland and nobody
gave a damn. Italy slashed and burned through Ethiopia and
the League of Nations wrote resolutions, but zip for action.
Therefore... and here we are.

Did you notice that after huge Chinese payments to Turkey,
Pakistan, the Saudi family and other moslem states, that
only the US of A has said _anything_ about 1,000,000+ moslem
Uighers in concentration camps in East Turkistan (Western
China)?

They are not stupid. They know that they can generally get
away with anything, but 'generally' being not always. Which
is why the huge Chinese anti-Trump media push leading up to
2020.



Criminals operating in other nations will satisfy demand in the US.

Maybe we should punish China for its lax oversight by inundating them
with opium. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars

-- Jay Beattie


I believe that modern day China controls the drug use in the country
by executions and forced "re-education" in a government "re-hab
center".

The "opium wars" were all the fault of the Chinese. After all they
demanded payment for Tea and Silk in silver coin, which was almost
literally bankrupting the British Empire.

Then, or course, those clever British chaps discovered that the opium
poppy was almost a weed in Bengal, India....
--
cheers,

John B.

  #10  
Old August 2nd 19, 01:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,707
Default Off Topic

On 8/1/2019 10:22 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 01 Aug 2019 20:23:09 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 8/1/2019 7:29 PM, John B. wrote:
I know this is off topic but I don't find the answer anywhere else.

Today's news has Pres. Trump accusing the Chinese of continuing to
sell fentanyl to the United States -- "and many Americans continue to
die!"

But my research shows that fentanyl is a medical drug for the
alleviation of severe pain and as such I would assume to be a
controlled substance. How than, "many Americans continue to die!" ?
--
cheers,

John B.


Like the situation the past few years in Philippines[1],
where legal pharmaceutical stimulants were suddenly and
voluminously exceeded by imported methamphetamine from the
Norks, Red China and a new domestic industry, the bulk of
USA street Fentanyl is not rerouted anaesthetic
pharmaceuticals but rather imports from China and China
routed through Mexico.

This is not news:
https://www.news-herald.com/news/ohi...57599081b.html

Since the transfer cost of contraband is relatively fixed by
mass, imports tend to extremely powerful versions and
analogs, notably veterinary Carfentanyl

http://www.ottawapublichealth.ca/en/...rfentanil.aspx

[1] As with Mr Trump, Mr Duterte has reacted to a real
problem, You may disagree with either man's policy or style
or rhetoric, but the problems are indeed real. Facts are
stubborn things...


Frankly while the "solution" may seem to be to get the host country to
ban the substance, whatever it may be, in reality that doesn't work.
In the recent past Opium was legally sold in Laos. You could go to the
market and buy it.

Than the U.S. beat the Laotians over the head and got them to outlaw
opium and its depravities and while it was no longer sold in the
market the production of opium and its depravities actually grew and
today it is estimated that Laos and Myanmar (not the major grower of
poppies) produced 893 metric tons of opium, in 2013, a 22 percent
growth from the previous year.

How can this be? Well Europe and the U.S. will buy, albeit illicitly,
just about all the opium products that a small country can produce and
not surprisingly to any student of economics where a market exists a
source will be found to supply it.

The current largest producer of poppies in the world is Afghanistan
with some 225,000 hectares ( 555,987 acres)in production.

What is the solution? Simple, penalize the users. If the demand is
reduced then the supply will also be reduced.

Is it politically possible in a country like the U.S.? Probably not.
--
cheers,

John B.
"What is the solution? Simple, penalize the users."


The net effect of the first hundred years of near-worldwide
heroin ban hasn't worked out all that well. Seems to have
merely kept the price up, encouraging supply.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


 




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