Purpose of this group

I give up. I joined this group to read and learn about bicycle related
information. Over the past month, I have seen nothing but flaming and
irresponsible use of this group. If flaming is your flavor, then go some
place else. All others need to block these folks and stop responding!!!!!!
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE STOP. Let's discuss biking or get out and ride.

Steve

Steve wrote:
: I give up. I joined this group to read and learn about bicycle related
: information. Over the past month, I have seen nothing but flaming and
: irresponsible use of this group. If flaming is your flavor, then go some
: place else. All others need to block these folks and stop responding!!!!!!

You're essentially making that old call, "don't feed the troll".

: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE STOP. Let's discuss biking or get out and ride.

For me this seems to be a low-traffic newsgroup, the other cycling
related groups are much more active. So the off-topic trolling
becomes more visible here... Just stick around and wait for the
next good thread, they come time to time.

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html
varis at no spam please iki fi

I'm with Steve. I just joined this group, and if I'm going to even spend
a few minutes reading crap by stupid trolls, I'll just stop. In the
spirit of improving the atmosphere and doing something myself about the
problem, I'll soon post a relevant topic.

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 00:49:09 +0000, risto.varanka wrote:

Steve wrote:
: I give up. I joined this group to read and learn about bicycle related
: information. Over the past month, I have seen nothing but flaming and
: irresponsible use of this group. If flaming is your flavor, then go some
: place else. All others need to block these folks and stop responding!!!!!!

You're essentially making that old call, "don't feed the troll".

: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE STOP. Let's discuss biking or get out and ride.

For me this seems to be a low-traffic newsgroup, the other cycling
related groups are much more active. So the off-topic trolling
becomes more visible here... Just stick around and wait for the
next good thread, they come time to time.

I couldn't agree more. If I had to pick the most relevant forum in America
right now, I would consider our looming problems with the end of the oil
age, our deepening health crisis with obesity, skyrocketing costs of
supporting motorists instead of citizens, how long commutes and being sealed
inside cars is dissolving the fabric of our society, and the overall
physical condition of our cities and communities and our increasing
isolation and incivility.

Taking this into account, I would look at the most efficient form of
transportation on the planet, one that improves your health, relies on
renewable fuel, and is essentially non-polluting - the bicycle. I would
look at the torrent of subsidies going to the automobile at the expense of
the bike.

Then I look at rec.bicycles.soc; the forum that has the opportunity to
become the molecule of steel at the tip of the spear for positive change, so
to speak - and I'm proud - because I manage not to weep openly.



"Steve" wrote in message
...
I give up. I joined this group to read and learn about bicycle related
information. Over the past month, I have seen nothing but flaming and
irresponsible use of this group. If flaming is your flavor, then go some
place else. All others need to block these folks and stop
responding!!!!!!
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE STOP. Let's discuss biking or get out and ride.

Steve

Dave Carroll wrote:
: I'm with Steve. I just joined this group, and if I'm going to even spend
: a few minutes reading crap by stupid trolls, I'll just stop. In the
: spirit of improving the atmosphere and doing something myself about the
: problem, I'll soon post a relevant topic.

Seems to be a disease of the cycling related newsgroups.
Fortunately I can spot most suspicious threads and avoid the most
potential flamewars.

Well, killfiles might work too, though I only very rarely go that far.

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html
varis at no spam please iki fi

Robert Haston wrote:
: I couldn't agree more. If I had to pick the most relevant forum in America
: right now, I would consider our looming problems with the end of the oil
: age, our deepening health crisis with obesity, skyrocketing costs of

I guess they said in 1970 that the oil age had ended. I think it
was also predicted that oil would run out in a few decades, but I
think they found some more in the meanwhile...

: supporting motorists instead of citizens, how long commutes and being sealed
: inside cars is dissolving the fabric of our society, and the overall
: physical condition of our cities and communities and our increasing
: isolation and incivility.

What would you blame for the isolation of people in the society?
Is it particularly a US problem, or do you see it elsewhere as
well?

Some people see the Internet as giving rise to more isolation and
depression (Hubert Dreyfus for example). Are we undergoing a sort
of physical alienation?

I would see lots of positive aspects in online communication.
Personally, it seems almost the only viable way to overcome the
social isolation that already is in place in our lives... Maybe
our society is undergoing a transformation in the social
principles of association?

: Taking this into account, I would look at the most efficient form of
: transportation on the planet, one that improves your health, relies on
: renewable fuel, and is essentially non-polluting - the bicycle. I would
: look at the torrent of subsidies going to the automobile at the expense of
: the bike.

Is the bicycle really the most efficient form? You'd have to
define efficiency too

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html
varis at no spam please iki fi

A road bicycle at moderate speeds moves more weight further faster with less
power input than any machine or animal on the planet. You are right about
the definition of efficiency, as practical factors such as cost and cruising
speed come into play.

A human is about as efficient as a gas engine in converting power, but when
you consider that fossil fuel is really "cheating" as incredible amounts of
energy were expended to convert plant matter into gasoline, we are miles
ahead.

wrote in message
...
Is the bicycle really the most efficient form? You'd have to
define efficiency too

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html
varis at no spam please iki fi

On 4 Dec 2003 04:53:18 GMT,
wrote:

Robert Haston wrote:
: I couldn't agree more. If I had to pick the most relevant forum in America
: right now, I would consider our looming problems with the end of the oil
: age, our deepening health crisis with obesity, skyrocketing costs of

I guess they said in 1970 that the oil age had ended. I think it
was also predicted that oil would run out in a few decades, but I
think they found some more in the meanwhile...

This happens every decade or so because the froot-loops
amongst us do not understand what "proven reserves" means. Just
because oil has not yet been found does not mean it doesn't exist.
This is a bit like the search for WMD:

"It's correct to say that the IAEA was fooled by the Iraqis. But the
lesson was learned. ... Not seeing an indication of something does not
lead automatically to the conclusion there is nothing."
--Hans Blix, UN Chief Weapons Inspector Sept. 2002

Cordially,
Ken (NY)
Chairman,
Department Of Redundancy Department
___________________________________
email:
http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/email.htm

Q: What the hardest thing about rollerblading?
A: Telling your parents you’re gay.

Well, I think this really hasn't much bearing on the point you
would like to make, but sometimes it's fun to engage in a bit of
hair-splitting :-)

Robert Haston wrote:
: A road bicycle at moderate speeds moves more weight further faster with less
: power input than any machine or animal on the planet.

.... except a sports recumbent. Or a faired racing recumbent. Have
a look at http://www.m5-ligfietsen.com/english/snelheid2.htm

Claiming them to be the most efficient vehicles (or at least the most
efficient vehicles possible) would be daring though. How about
wind-powered vehicles? Wind is free you know... Or vehicles on ice
with skates? A snowboard would require little input for moving
downhill too, though then you'd have some energy stored already...
But this is changing the definition too :-)

Who knows what kind of vehicles there will be available a century
from now?

: You are right about
: the definition of efficiency, as practical factors such as cost and cruising
: speed come into play.

They sure do. When discussing speeds of recumbents, there are also
some ifs and buts, some of them discussed ad nauseam in the other
newsgroups.

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html
varis at no spam please iki fi

Robert Haston wrote:

Then I look at rec.bicycles.soc; the forum that has the opportunity to
become the molecule of steel at the tip of the spear for positive change, so
to speak - and I'm proud - because I manage not to weep openly.

I think it's not just us; all of Usenet is going down the same path as
the Jerry Springer Show. In every forum where more than one man of less
than absolute civility, tolerance, and good will is allowed to post,
this downward slide is inevitable.

So why should Usenet be the tip of the spear, anyway? It's so very
last-century, you can't even moderate a discussion there without
programming its user interface purely via e-mail to a bunch of old coots
who may pay attention to you, or they may not. If we want enforcement
of civility, we can set up a Web forum for that in about an hour.

--
-------- Scott Eiler B{D -------- http://www.eilertech.com/ --------

"It seemed an unlikely spot for a sensitive songwriter from Greenwich
Village... She ordered the 20-ounce steak."
-- Lin Brehmer, Chicago DJ, describing his meeting in a steakhouse
with Suzanne Vega.