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Phoenix, Az. Bicycle on Sidewalk Laws-NEED HELP!



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 13th 04, 01:28 PM
progunner
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Phoenix, Az. Bicycle on Sidewalk Laws-NEED HELP!

OK, I'm not sure if I have the correct ng for this topic, or if this
is even on topic, so I cross posted to another ng. hoping to get a
response. (So, please forgive me if I am ot)
----------
I need clarification about bicycle riders riding bicycles on sidewalks
in Phoenix, Arizona.

Is this covered by state, county or city statutes???
------------
The scenario goes something like this:

A driver of an automobile is in a supermarket parking lot driving
towards an exit.

Usually, there is a sidewalk crossing the exit path of the vehicles
leaving the parking lot. Sometimes there is a stop sign, usually there
is not.

A quick check to the right by the driver of the automobile shows that
there are no pedestrians on the sidewalk, so the driver is
concentrating on the traffic to his/her left, looking for an opening
in the traffic to turn onto the roadway.

Out of nowhere, a bicyclist [approaching the vehicle on the passenger
side, (right to left)
and moving much faster than a walking or jogging pedestrian] almost
rams the
passenger side of the vehicle, and starts swearing at the driver of
the vehicle for not yielding to the bicyclist on the sidewalk.

Apparently the bicyclist believes (passionately) that he is in the
right, and that the driver of the automobile is supposed to yield to
the bicyclist crossing the exit path of the automobile.

If anyone is aware of the laws the Phoenix area, would you please
help? Possibly a url or ???

Many thanks in advance for your help.

James
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  #2  
Old March 13th 04, 06:30 PM
Joel
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Posts: n/a
Default Phoenix, Az. Bicycle on Sidewalk Laws-NEED HELP!

just the bike specific stuff- http://azbikeclub.r.m6.net/bikelaw.html

check it with the actual law-
http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/28/title28.htm

It's my understanding that in arizona bicycling on the sidewalk is not
against the law, as a bicycle is not considered a vehicle in that state.
although, operating at a speed faster than the normal users of a
sidewalk could be considered reckless driving on the part of the cyclist.

hope this makes things somewhat blurry...

progunner wrote:
OK, I'm not sure if I have the correct ng for this topic, or if this
is even on topic, so I cross posted to another ng. hoping to get a
response. (So, please forgive me if I am ot)
----------
I need clarification about bicycle riders riding bicycles on sidewalks
in Phoenix, Arizona.

Is this covered by state, county or city statutes???
------------
The scenario goes something like this:

A driver of an automobile is in a supermarket parking lot driving
towards an exit.

Usually, there is a sidewalk crossing the exit path of the vehicles
leaving the parking lot. Sometimes there is a stop sign, usually there
is not.

A quick check to the right by the driver of the automobile shows that
there are no pedestrians on the sidewalk, so the driver is
concentrating on the traffic to his/her left, looking for an opening
in the traffic to turn onto the roadway.

Out of nowhere, a bicyclist [approaching the vehicle on the passenger
side, (right to left)
and moving much faster than a walking or jogging pedestrian] almost
rams the
passenger side of the vehicle, and starts swearing at the driver of
the vehicle for not yielding to the bicyclist on the sidewalk.

Apparently the bicyclist believes (passionately) that he is in the
right, and that the driver of the automobile is supposed to yield to
the bicyclist crossing the exit path of the automobile.

If anyone is aware of the laws the Phoenix area, would you please
help? Possibly a url or ???

Many thanks in advance for your help.

James


  #3  
Old March 13th 04, 07:40 PM
Luigi de Guzman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Phoenix, Az. Bicycle on Sidewalk Laws-NEED HELP!

So it looks like you were driving and got into a heated discussion
with that sidewalk cyclist.

For whatever it's worth, I learned rights-of-way and yields with a
simple rule of thumb: traffic on the smaller road always yields to
traffic on a larger road, except where signs or signals say otherwise.

When riding a bicycle on a path or sidewalk, I always consider the
path or sidewalk the smaller road, and therefore am compelled to yield
to traffic on regular roads and highways as well as wider paths that
intersect the path that I'm on (such as driveways and the supermarket
entrance that you describe).

Since the sidewalk or parallel cycle path is *always* the narrower
road for the purposes of determing right-of-way, you can see why it's
such a pain to ride on the sidewalk. At speeds faster than your
average walker or runner (easily attainable by a cyclist, whatever his
condition!), it places the cyclist in a very awkward legal situation:
does he stop at every intersection and driveway, or does he ignore
cross-traffic and ride blithely on? The former is very sound, so far
as the law goes, and quite safe--but inconvenient. You might as well
walk. The latter is convenient but, as you saw, hazardous, as it sets
a cyclist up for all sorts of inevitable confrontations.

This is why I ride in the roadway. If traffic won't yield to me, it
will definitely yield to the car behind me, or the truck behind him,
or the bus behind that.

The cyclist riding wrong-way and on the sidewalk was therefore
probably in the wrong, and operating under the fatal misapprehension
that all traffic should yield to him in whatever circumstance. Had he
collided with your car and done actual damage, you'd probably have a
good case on your hands.

Get on your bike and try it sometime in a quiet neighborhood. You'd
be surprised.

-Luigi
  #4  
Old March 13th 04, 08:21 PM
Bill Z.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Phoenix, Az. Bicycle on Sidewalk Laws-NEED HELP!

(progunner) writes:


Out of nowhere, a bicyclist [approaching the vehicle on the passenger
side, (right to left)
and moving much faster than a walking or jogging pedestrian] almost
rams the
passenger side of the vehicle, and starts swearing at the driver of
the vehicle for not yielding to the bicyclist on the sidewalk.

Apparently the bicyclist believes (passionately) that he is in the
right, and that the driver of the automobile is supposed to yield to
the bicyclist crossing the exit path of the automobile.

If anyone is aware of the laws the Phoenix area, would you please
help? Possibly a url or ???


Laws regarding use of bicycles on sidewalk vary from state to state,
with some states allowing local jurisdictions to regulate the use of
a sidewalk by bicycles. Regardless of the laws regarding that,
however, there is a general obligation to operate a vehicle at a
safe speed, and laws in every state reflect that.

From your description, the bicyclist would have been riding at a speed
unsafe for the conditions (I presume the car was moving very slowly
towards the road as the driver tried to get a better view of traffic.)
I've seen bicyclists (usually teenagers too young to drive) go very
fast on a sidewalk and shoot out into an intersection, with buildings
or other obstructions blocking the view for a driver on a cross
street. With the bicyclist riding against the flow of traffic, the
driver can have well under a second to react, which is far too short
to have any chance of avoiding a collision.

BTW, riding against the flow of traffic on a sidewalk has been
shown to be about 4 times more dangerous than riding on the
road in the same direction as traffic, even with most bicyclists
riding at what would seem to be a reasonable speed.



--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
  #5  
Old March 13th 04, 08:40 PM
Just zis Guy, you know?
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Posts: n/a
Default Phoenix, Az. Bicycle on Sidewalk Laws-NEED HELP!

On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:21:09 GMT, (Bill Z.)
wrote in message :

Laws regarding use of bicycles on sidewalk vary from state to state,
with some states allowing local jurisdictions to regulate the use of
a sidewalk by bicycles.


Or maybe the guy is trying to blame the cyclist for a SMIDSY...

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University
  #6  
Old March 13th 04, 08:45 PM
Bubba@FL
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Phoenix, Az. Bicycle on Sidewalk Laws-NEED HELP!

Hi,
You should contact the Arizona State Department of Transportation. They
would be able to give you an accurate answer to your question about bikes on
sidewalks. Also, contact the City of Pheonix about any local ordinances
governing bikes.

In my state, Florida, riding on sidewalks is allowed but you must give way
to pedestrians. But, in the city I live in there is a local ordinance
prohibiting riding (you can walk them) bicycles on sidewalks in the downtown
district.

As for accident, if that same scenario happened here I would say the cyclist
is at fault for hitting the stationary vehicle.
Here's a couple links to get you in the right direction. Take care -
www.dot.state.az.us
www.ci.phoenix.az.us


progunner wrote in message
m...
OK, I'm not sure if I have the correct ng for this topic, or if this
is even on topic, so I cross posted to another ng. hoping to get a
response. (So, please forgive me if I am ot)
----------
I need clarification about bicycle riders riding bicycles on sidewalks
in Phoenix, Arizona.

Is this covered by state, county or city statutes???
------------
The scenario goes something like this:

A driver of an automobile is in a supermarket parking lot driving
towards an exit.

Usually, there is a sidewalk crossing the exit path of the vehicles
leaving the parking lot. Sometimes there is a stop sign, usually there
is not.

A quick check to the right by the driver of the automobile shows that
there are no pedestrians on the sidewalk, so the driver is
concentrating on the traffic to his/her left, looking for an opening
in the traffic to turn onto the roadway.

Out of nowhere, a bicyclist [approaching the vehicle on the passenger
side, (right to left)
and moving much faster than a walking or jogging pedestrian] almost
rams the
passenger side of the vehicle, and starts swearing at the driver of
the vehicle for not yielding to the bicyclist on the sidewalk.

Apparently the bicyclist believes (passionately) that he is in the
right, and that the driver of the automobile is supposed to yield to
the bicyclist crossing the exit path of the automobile.

If anyone is aware of the laws the Phoenix area, would you please
help? Possibly a url or ???

Many thanks in advance for your help.

James



  #8  
Old March 13th 04, 10:56 PM
Mike Kruger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Phoenix, Az. Bicycle on Sidewalk Laws-NEED HELP!

"Luigi de Guzman" wrote in message
...

For whatever it's worth, I learned rights-of-way and yields with a
simple rule of thumb: traffic on the smaller road always yields to
traffic on a larger road, except where signs or signals say otherwise.

When riding a bicycle on a path or sidewalk, I always consider the
path or sidewalk the smaller road, and therefore am compelled to yield
to traffic on regular roads and highways as well as wider paths that
intersect the path that I'm on (such as driveways and the supermarket
entrance that you describe).

That's might be a good rule for survival, but as law it's all wet.
Let's suppose we have a through street with a sidewalk, and several side
streets with stop signs.
Let's suppose we have a pedestrian walking straight, using the sidewalk on
the through street.
A pedestrian on the sidewalk has the right of way over vehicles on the side
streets.
They have to stop for him.
That same pedestrian also has the right of way over traffic turning off the
through street across his path.
The traffic has to wait until he has crossed the street.

What's true for the pedestrian is true for any legal user of the sidewalk
(jogger, baby carriage, wheelchair, Segway, in-line skater, bicyclist,
marching jazz band).

What the original poster was talking about is a legitimate problem from both
sides. The vehicle driver often can't see whether traffic is coming without
pulling far enough forward to block the sidewalk. However, this blocks the
sidewalk from other users who, in fact, have the right of way. This is
particularly irritating when there's no way for the pedestrian to walk
behind the vehicle safely.

Courtesy is the best rule in these circumstances, but shouldn't obscure the
basic principle that it is not legal for a vehicle to block a sidewalk.



  #9  
Old March 13th 04, 11:08 PM
Mike Kruger
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Posts: n/a
Default Phoenix, Az. Bicycle on Sidewalk Laws-NEED HELP!

The whole Phoenix code, in searchable form, is he
http://livepublish.municode.com/2/lp...itlist.htm&2.0
(this specific link is the result of a search on "sidewalk")

Oh, and my previous post may have been a bit snippy.

I certainly agree with those who point out that, legal or not, it is
imprudent for a bicyclist to ride on the sidewalk in the "wrong" direction
at a high rate of speed.

In my pedestrian mode, I'm really tired of people blocking the sidewalks.


  #10  
Old March 13th 04, 11:22 PM
Luigi de Guzman
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Default Phoenix, Az. Bicycle on Sidewalk Laws-NEED HELP!

On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:08:49 GMT, "Mike Kruger"
wrote:

The whole Phoenix code, in searchable form, is he
http://livepublish.municode.com/2/lp...itlist.htm&2.0
(this specific link is the result of a search on "sidewalk")

Oh, and my previous post may have been a bit snippy.

I certainly agree with those who point out that, legal or not, it is
imprudent for a bicyclist to ride on the sidewalk in the "wrong" direction
at a high rate of speed.

In my pedestrian mode, I'm really tired of people blocking the sidewalks.


Agreed. But now what I want to know is whether or not there is a
difference between a cyclist and a pedestrian on the sidewalk,
legally-speaking. If a cyclist on the sidewalk is considered a
pedestrian moving really really fast, that's one thing. If the
cyclist is considered a vehicle operator who is incidentally permitted
to operate on the sidewalk (where other vehicles are not permitted),
then that's qutie another, isn't it?

-Luigi


 




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