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Another Typical Mountain Biker Demonstrates Their Utter Ignorance of Basic Biology



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 13th 04, 06:33 AM
Mike Vandeman
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Default Another Typical Mountain Biker Demonstrates Their Utter Ignorance of Basic Biology

At 02:28 PM 4/12/04 -0500, Jonathan Fogel wrote:
July 2, 1993

Auto-Free Bay Area Coalition / 510-849-0770


P.O. Box 10141


Berkeley, California 94709



Dear Dr. Vandeman,


I recently read your letter to the Auto-Free Bay Area Coalition, (

Appropriate and Inappropriate Uses of the Bicycle; Promoting Bicycling)
written July 2, 1993. Despite the fact that this letter was written over 10
years ago, I found it difficult to restrain myself from throwing rotten
vegetables at my monitor. From your retro-grouch stance, I'm willing to bet
that you are still to this day, of the same opinion in regards to trail
usage.

I consider myself an environmentalist and a road cyclist / mountain biker /

hiker.

That's a contradiction. Mountain bikers are NOT environmentalists.

I'm also a progressive, open minded individual who is able to roll

with the issues at hand and not afraid to change my opinions if it benefits
the whole.

Now that we got that out of the way, I wanted to address a few points of

your letter. Judging from your extreme leftist slant, I'd be willing to bet
you're not a fan of President Bush and his dogmatic rhetoric. I just wanted
to point out to you how similar your style is.

"However, a bicycle is still a tool of technology, and like all such tools

can be used for good or "evil"."

Isn't it a little sociocentric, and overzealous to assume that mountain

biking his inherently "evil"

I don't assume it. I prove it.

I know of things happening in the world right

now that are truly evil, and let me tell you, mountain biking isn't one of
them. I found it quite childish and smacking of the religious right, not to
mention cheap and quite frankly, unintelligent.

Tell that to the wildlife you have killed by crusing them.

We Mountain bikers are trail users. What we take from the trail is

enjoyment, just like anyone else.

As well as accelerating erosion and driving away other trail users and wildlife.

Unlike most user groups we give back. Here

In Missouri and all over the country, our mountain bike culture is defined
by an ethic of responsibility. Most of us here engage in trail maintenance
on a regular basis.

Trail maintenance, like trail construdtion, is a destructive activity. You also
forgot to mention that you HAVE to do trail maintenance, because you destroy the
trails.

We do it because we realize we use the trail more than

most.

And do most of the DAMAGE. Be honest!

Despite this we don't do a lot of finger pointing. We don't complain
that we are the only private user group here improving and maintaining our
trail system for everyone.

The idea that a mountain bike could be responsible for the extinction of

wildlife is quite honestly preposterous.

I never said that. But it has contributed.

Quite honestly, I've never heard a

more narrow-minded argument. In fact it wasn't much of , just a weak,
unsubstantiated slant. As for getting out into the backcountry, here in
Missouri, we're not going anywhere a hiker can't get to. Besides, trails
require usage...they don't maintain themselves.

Trails only require maintenance if mountai bikers ruin them.

I'm sure if you had it your way we would be looking at nature from behind a

glass wall, protected as it where in a sterile environment. It's perfectly
fine with me if you want to exercise your right to abstain from a hike in
the backcountry, but don't put our right to appreciate nature in jeopardy.

So it is impossible for you to appreciate nature without being on a bike?! Can't
you WALK?

With lack of appreciation comes lack of caring and commitment. It's the one

of the founding principles of our National Park system.

If mountain bikers appreciated nature, they wouldn't ride around it on knobby
tires, ripping up the trails and killing the wildlife.


Sincerely,


Jonathan Fogel


P.S. When was the last time you physically did anything to improve your

local trail system? Deeds not words.

I pick up the trash whenever it needs it.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
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  #2  
Old April 13th 04, 02:18 PM
Ken Campbell
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Default Another Typical Mountain Biker Demonstrates Their UtterIgnorance of Basic Biology

Wow. It's like a mtn biker stole Mikees teddy bear or something.....Whiiirrrrrrrr spin snap......churnnnnn......(grinch mode on) " i must stop Mtn bikers from existing ...snnnrrkksnrrkkk"
wheeeee.
Snip

I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
morons ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the last 900
Years fighting idiots and cretins.)


Mike 4/12/2004 11:33:03 PM


At 02:28 PM 4/12/04 -0500, Jonathan Fogel wrote:
July 2, 1993

Auto-Free Bay Area Coalition / 510-849-0770


P.O. Box 10141


Berkeley, California 94709



Dear Dr. Vandeman,


  #3  
Old April 13th 04, 05:01 PM
Michael Paul
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Default Another Typical Mountain Biker Demonstrates Their Utter Ignorance of Basic Biology


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
At 02:28 PM 4/12/04 -0500, Jonathan Fogel

wrote:
July 2, 1993



That's a contradiction. Mountain bikers are NOT environmentalists.


neither is one who's mere existence comes from the benefit of motorized
transportation or any other fossil fuel derivative such as plastic, natural
gas, rubber, asphalt, etc. etc. etc.

you say a mountain biker is not an environmentalist since they ride on the
trail yet your pathetic existence is based on benefiting from envionmental
damage as well. by your own logic, you are also not an environmentalist.
you can't have different standards for yourself than you do others (although
it does make your side of the argument easier)

idiot


  #4  
Old April 16th 04, 06:37 AM
Mike Schwab
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Default Another Typical Mountain Biker Demonstrates Their Utter Ignorance ofBasic Biology



Mike Vandeman wrote:
snip
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Mike, what is your address? I had a visitor in my house today. A
racoon that climbed in for some cat food. I considered sending him to
you. He fit nicely in my cat carrier. Hopefully, your human proof
barrier will keep him in from human home. But because I was not set up
to ship immediately, I took him to the police, who released him at a
lake about 2 miles away. Oh, I could try to donate a family of 6 white
tail deer. They keep running across my yard in the same place. One was
hit and killed last summer. About 2 weeks ago another deer did not
leave any blood behind, just some hair in the bent bumper and the plate
frame broke off on the pickup truck.
  #5  
Old April 16th 04, 05:56 PM
Mike Vandeman
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Posts: n/a
Default Another Typical Mountain Biker Demonstrates Their Utter Ignorance of Basic Biology

On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 00:37:20 -0500, Mike Schwab wrote:

..
..
..Mike Vandeman wrote:
..snip
.. ===
.. I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
.. humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
.. years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
..
.. http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
..Mike, what is your address?

The White House
Washington, D.C.

I had a visitor in my house today. A
..racoon that climbed in for some cat food. I considered sending him to
..you. He fit nicely in my cat carrier.

Good. Send him right away.

Hopefully, your human proof
..barrier will keep him in from human home. But because I was not set up
..to ship immediately, I took him to the police, who released him at a
..lake about 2 miles away. Oh, I could try to donate a family of 6 white
..tail deer. They keep running across my yard in the same place. One was
..hit and killed last summer. About 2 weeks ago another deer did not
..leave any blood behind, just some hair in the bent bumper and the plate
..frame broke off on the pickup truck.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 




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